Pocket Money to Prosperity: Transforming Kids into Savvy Savers with Ben Bolger

Want your kids to become savvy savers and investors? Get ready for an enlightening conversation with Ben Bolger from Squirrel, an app that aids in teaching kids financial literacy. We dive into the importance of starting financial education as early as three years old and utilising positive language when discussing money. This episode is packed with actionable tips to help your young ones live life on their own terms through smart financial decisions.

Together with Ben, we explore the challenges of teaching kids the real value of money and alternative ways to encourage learning beyond paying for chores. Discover practical insights into instilling good financial habits from a young age and how Squirrel supports teaching investment concepts like compound interest and opportunity cost. Don't miss out on this opportunity to empower your children with the financial literacy skills they need for a prosperous future!

Bio:  Ben is a Certified Financial Planner;  who is on a mission to make the world financially literate, one classroom at a time.

Connect with Ben here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ben-bolger/

Teach Middle East Magazine is the premier platform for educators and the entire education sector in the Middle East and beyond. Our vision is to equip educators with the materials and tools they need, to function optimally in and out of the classroom. We provide a space for educators to connect and find inspiration, resources, and forums to enhance their teaching techniques, methodologies, and personal development. We connect education suppliers and service providers to the people who make the buying decisions in schools.

Visit our website https://linktr.ee/teachmiddleeast.

Tweet us: https://twitter.com/teachmiddleeast

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Hosted by Leisa Grace Wilson

Connect with Leisa Grace:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/leisagrace

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leisagrace/

Teach Middle East Magazine is the premier platform for educators and the entire education sector in the Middle East and beyond. Our vision is to equip educators with the materials and tools they need, to function optimally in and out of the classroom. We provide a space for educators to connect and find inspiration, resources, and forums to enhance their teaching techniques, methodologies, and personal development. We connect education suppliers and service providers to the people who make the buying decisions in schools.

Visit our website https://linktr.ee/teachmiddleeast.

Tweet us: https://twitter.com/teachmiddleeast

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachmiddleeast/.

Hosted by Leisa Grace Wilson

Connect with Leisa Grace:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/leisagrace

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leisagrace/

Transcript

Leisa Grace Wilson: 0:26

Hi everyone, this is Lisa Grace and welcome to the Teach Middle East podcast. I am talking money today, but not your money people. I'm talking teaching your children, your students, about money with Ben Bulger from Squirrel, and Squirrel is an app that teaches children how to manage their finances, and we're going to be diving into teaching children how to move from pocket money to prosperity, how to transform your young ones whether they're your own kids or they're the kids you teach into savvy savers, investors and people who can manage their money properly. Because I don't know if you are like me and you made a fair few money mistakes in your life that could have been avoided if you had the full financial education coming up. But Squirrel and Ben and his team that's what they're trying to avoid our own kids and the kids we teach from having to go through.

Ben Bolger: 1:37

You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast connecting, developing and empowering educators.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 1:54

Please remember me when you are super successful with this app.

Speaker 3: 2:09

You have work work the app. It's all about freeィ preparing for medical and it's example to focus on Graphic Education. Okay, just quite good example. That increased And he was able to notice things like the delayed, instant gratification that children were able to build up over a term and the really nice sort of positive money habits that children were showing over that period of time And he just basically said, look, i've got to find a way to help more children and also probably make it a little bit sort of less labour-intensive for the theatre and the classroom. So we sat down and we sort of brainstormed some ideas and took his manual version And we've come up. I've probably close to 80 months, two years now. We've got squirrel up and running in over 20 schools and 5,000 students using the platform.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 3:10

Amazing. So Ben, why you? What's your background? Give us a little intro.

Speaker 3: 3:16

So I've been living in Abadabbi for the last nearly 11 years now. I originally from London. Growing up, finance didn't really cross my mind. All I ever wanted to do was like and most young boys have played professional sports. So I was fortunate enough to do that for a living, playing professional rugby for a living, but just for a few different reasons, ended up sort of leaving rugby and moving up to the Middle East and sort of fell into a career in financial services, sort of qualified myself up to become a charted wealth manager, helping individuals, families, businesses for the last decade, and then now, sort of the last 18 months, have managed to sort of fall into entrepreneurship, i guess, and find myself really fortunate to have met Matt. It's fantastic, fantastic guy, real, real, solid and exceptional, inspiring, educated. So we've taken his idea and we're trying to implement that to as many children across the world as we can.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 4:09

Amazing Financial literacy, super important. Not a lot of us older generation, please. I'm not aging myself but, truth be told, i'm definitely not young. Not a lot of us had the foundations, especially in school, and if you were fortunate enough to have parents who gave you that foundation, then I'm sure you are grateful for that. But the fact is, young children need to have financial literacy as top priority And I wanted to find out sort of like how can this early financial literacy skills, how can learning those impact a child's life choices, chances even, and their career?

Speaker 3: 4:56

I think there's enough academic evidence to show that our relationship with money and personal finance starts from sort of as young as three years old. So it's important that we do start thinking about how we're educating children and the sort of language and behaviors that we demonstrating in front of children from a really young age. But i mean, what is the reason is that we want to give children these financial literacy skills, and it's important to distinguish the difference between financial education and financial literacy is the knowledge and knowing what to do. Financial literacy is the ability to sort of apply that knowledge and consistently do that over a period of time. And we want children to be able to Build the financial literacy skills so they can go out into the real world and live a sort of field and independent life because money actually make sense to them. Is not this mysterious sort of subject of topic that just causes pressure? Financial literacy will allow them to be confident, make informed decision and allow them to live life on their own terms. How early is?

Leisa Grace Wilson: 5:57

this supposed to start? at what age i?

Speaker 3: 6:00

mean again, i think it's difficult to start intentionally talking to your three year old about money, but as soon as we can i mean, we've got children on our platform is as young as six years old, so i think the young six years old would be more than suitable because they're doing a great job.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 6:17

Because i'm thinking have you seen a three year old in the supermarket? they want everything and they want every little sweet, every toy. So i'm thinking, as early as possible, maybe three.

Speaker 3: 6:31

Absolutely. I think it's just being mindful of the language that we are displaying when we're talking to the three year old. So i mean, instead of sort of saying i know we can't afford that, i'll put that back, is more to do with okay, maybe let's work out how we can save and get that in the future. So it's just thinking about our wording and making sure that we're referring to money in a positive way rather than a negative way, and those sort of habits and actions that children then develop will be positive habits and actions as opposed to negative ones.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 6:58

Yeah, i have two sons of my own, and when they were younger, and even now, this is what i say to them when they go places and they want things and they're going, oh, i want this, i want that. I'm like mommy and daddy have money to buy this. We're choosing not to buy this because we don't think it's something you need right now. Is that too negative, too strong, too positive? what are your thoughts? are that?

Speaker 3: 7:22

No, i think being transparent, involving children in those sort of budget decisions or monetary decisions is important, and the fact that you've explained the reasoning behind your decision is again is important is helping them to understand. It's not just the only not gonna have that is not gonna have this now for this reason, which i think is perfect.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 7:43

Yeah, because i don't want them to grow up thinking that because if we keep saying to them all we can't afford that, we can't afford that, they're gonna grow up with this sense of luck. Some of the things, to be honest, i really can't afford them. But i don't want them to grow up with that kind of luck where they think all you know, mom and daddy can't afford anything like really every single thing i've asked for it's we can't afford that, we can't afford that, and so i don't want them to have that luck. But at the same time i'm not gonna buy them every frivolous, silly thing. So normally i say to them We choose not to buy that because instead we're having this or that or and i talked to them about major things. But what are some of those common misconceptions or misunderstandings that children tend to have about money?

Speaker 3: 8:36

I think you probably hit the first one on head already is that there's this just endless stream of money available from parents and The bank of mom and dad is just the bank that keeps on giving.

Speaker 3: 8:46

So i think most parents will probably be able to relate to that one, and helping children understand the rules for true value of money and essentially the work that has gone in to bring that into the family, is obviously important. I think another one is that children often think that money and learning about money is something that They don't necessarily have to worry about till later on in life is just this adult thing that will pick up along the way and I think there's a huge benefit to the student of understanding this knowledge and starting their financial independence journey from A real young age because obviously, as we know, the longer that you've got until Your financial independence, the more flexibility that you've got, the less you actually have to do over a period of time. So, yeah, i think there's sort of two misconceptions are obviously that the money is just this endless there's a endless eight dm and realistically it's something that That we need to concentrate on the young children as soon as possible.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 9:43

How do we clear up that misconception with our kids that money is not a free flowing river that comes into our house just like that?

Speaker 3: 9:53

Well, i guess, if possible, parents can give their children the opportunity to earn money and actually have to understand the work that goes into getting money and similar to how The parents have to go out and have money. So I think giving the children an opportunity to start valuing money and Relating the work they put in to the reward they get it with it's for doing chores or going out and getting a part time job That will start to give them a sense of money and what it takes, and then they'll be easily be able to relate to when us, as parents, are going on going to work. That is a lot easier for them to relate and say well, i'm with that, are going to work, now They've got to go through X amount of hours a week and that's what brings money into the household.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 10:35

You know the problem I have. I have a problem paying my kids to do chores. I just I don't know. you know it's the, it's the Caribbean mom and me. when I was growing up, my parents didn't pay me to do chores, and in my friends their parents paid them, but my parents didn't pay me. and now I've got kids and I don't want to pay them. So I don't want them to think making their beds and cleaning their rooms and keeping their stuff tidy Is somebody else's responsibility and I'm just paying them to be good And so when I pay them, that's when they do it. So how do we create that balance? I know this is more along the parenting side, but I'm curious Yeah.

Speaker 3: 11:13

I think that I mean there's definitely a lot of validity in that. I mean I think I mean I think Children for things that should be expected of them potentially might be negative. I mean, i know the reason why I sort of mentioned that, because I know that after speaking to many parents here, especially in the Middle East, it's quite difficult for children to go and get those part time jobs, whether it's the paper round or working in the sweet shop or whatever. So I suppose it's one of the only ways where parents can really sort of instill that sense of money into children If children have got the opportunity to go and get a part time job wherever they are. And I think they're huge life lessons that children can learn from the young age.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 11:52

Yeah, i know the part time job thing is tricky. Here One of the creative things that we're trying to do is to find ways to get our boys to earn money. So they're pretty good at math and pretty much all their subjects, but math in particular. So we're trying to get them to tutor younger kids They're only 10 but, you know, for a token fee like five, 10 dirhams an hour, because they've passed through. Maybe they're now in year six that are going into year seven, so they could do some tutoring of year two, three, four and even five Students just to get some little earning, so that they can know what it is to earn money.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 12:27

Because you know I refuse to pay them for chores, because I gave you that bedroom, i gave you that bed, i bought those clothes. You need to now pack them, clean that bed and clean stuff. You can't just expect it to be paid. But I get what you're saying. Talk to me about how you see kids react when they get money, when they get money in this region. So, for example, they get, you know, a gift if they're Muslim, or they get some Christmas money or they get some birthday money. What do they tend to do with it? Do you have any ideas?

Speaker 3: 13:05

I mean I get super excited, don't know. I mean, children are children. I think it's just that sort of sense of excitement. They're like what can I spend it on? So Yeah, i mean it's important that we sort of help them understand that again, money is a finite resource. You go out and sort of blow it within a day or so. This is not coming back And it says this is important money lessons. That doesn't change. It's the same stuff that our grandparents were telling us, right? But it's important that that messaging is consistent from a young age, because children are children And they again, they just get this money as like a walk and I do with it. It's like it's burning the hole in their pocket.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 13:41

Yeah, that's what I've noticed, especially with my boys and their little friends. When they get money they think purchased first Oh, can you take us to the mall? Can you take us to the mall because they really want to spend it? But here's my question to you From the research that you've been doing like when kids don't have sound financial literacy, how does that play out later in life?

Speaker 3: 14:08

Yeah, i think I mean there's definitely a correlation between people who had a good financial education upbringing whether that's from parents or inspiring teachers who've taken the time to have these conversations or people that potentially didn't have that. I mean it's definitely a correlation between people who've had that education then unlikely to be more sort of financially stable than potentially, those who didn't. I think a lot of the things that we talk about is developing habits, and those habits take a long time to develop, is about consistently doing small, simple things repeatedly over a long period of time. And obviously, if you've had that education and someone's introduced you to those sort of positive money habits from a young age, you've just had more time of consistently either hearing that message or putting those into play. So, yeah, i mean, if we can give these children that knowledge but also the ability to practice those behaviors from a young age, we're just giving them a better chance to go out into the real world and hopefully, like I said you can fall a little bit of life on their own terms.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 15:09

How early do you think we should start talking to our kids about investing?

Speaker 3: 15:13

I think with regards to investing and we don't particularly have to get into the nuts and bolts of the different types of academic classes and securities but I just think that introducing children to one sort of the idea of compound interest and how, that sort of snowballs over a longer period of time, and potentially the two sort of the opportunity cost of buying something and what that could potentially look like if you invested it I think that if children understood what all that sort of birthday money they might get might look like in 10 years time, if they I don't know but bought an index fund, then they might go.

Speaker 3: 15:49

You know what I'll hold off for 10 years time, because in 10 years time I might be 18 and then I'll have an X amount of money. So I think just introducing them to compound interest and when it comes to investing and what that could look like, and then obviously the opportunity cost, and then getting them to potentially be a little bit more intentional about their decision making, go, okay, well, look, you could just go and spend a hundred pound on a toy or a PlayStation game or something like that. Or if you keep adding to, like I've mentioned before, like an index fund, then this is what you could have later on in life And then maybe sort of see what the decision process looks like after that.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 16:25

Yeah, you know I worry for my kids who are growing up here in the UAE around such affluence and not having an understanding of how I don't know. I just get the feeling they don't know what hard graft looks like. I always have this conversation. I try to talk to them about my upbringing. I try to talk to them about the fact that my mom, my parents and how growing up as an immigrant in Britain and what that was like and all of the things. But I have a feeling it's lost on them. I have a feeling they're like that's nice a story, mommy, that's really cute.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 17:09

Now when are we going to go off and do something else? I don't know how to make it practical for them, but you're doing something really practical with Squirrel, right? You're taking what we as parents and schools want to teach our students about finance and you're making it practical. So talk to us about Squirrel. Like how does it work? Because it's not visual and you can't show in the podcast's audio, so you're going to have to be really descriptive. Ben Squirrel helps in showing the practicalities. Talk to us about that.

Speaker 3: 17:45

Yeah, i think it's Sally right. So I think, helping individuals and families for the last 10 years. It's very rarely once I've told someone, okay, this is what we need to do, is it them not being able to understand what we need to do? It's often being able to understand what we need to do but then consistently put that in practice over a long period of time. What separates people who are good with personal finance and, potentially, people who are In terms of sort of financial literacy resources out there or financial education resources out there. There's lots out there, lots of information. I mean we've got, with the boom of AI and obviously the internet and children can go out and get that information. But just telling someone the difference between a savings account or why we need to save for the longer term, just giving them that knowledge, in our opinion, isn't going to form those habits that are going to last over a long period of time.

Speaker 3: 18:32

So what we've done is essentially create an environment where children are sort of having a lot of time. For the first time is they're earning this sort of virtual income, but they've got different utility bills that they've got to pay within this game on a consistent basis. They're encouraging and incentivized to move money from sort of current accounts into savings accounts. They've got to deal with risk management where they'll have emergency expenses thrown at them like the same way. That way we do it And essentially at school we're going to continue building out these scenarios where we're putting children in the environment and a safe environment where they can learn, probably make mistakes, learn from those mistakes and then start to develop and build those habits that are going to hopefully be positive over a long period of time. And we're seeing that already.

Speaker 3: 19:17

I mean we give children sort of discretion in terms of the types of bills that they can pay and working, obviously, sort of hire the luxury car and live in the mansion And, as you can imagine, you give the children those options at the beginning and they all decide to just start paying the top level rent.

Speaker 3: 19:33

And then the game starts to make it a little bit more difficult for them, especially on the early stages, to make sure you pay any bills on time. If they get hit with emergency expenses, can they deal with those? I mean, are they able to move the required amount to their savings account? So the game in a sense is helping behavior change because they're incentivized to do all the good habits And if they are hiring an expensive car or renting the mansion then the game becomes difficult for them And we've seen a huge like. We've got the data that shows how the huge drop off in children who were really focused on having the cars and the accommodation and buying all the things for avatar And we've already seen it's been fascinating and obviously really we're really proud of all the children who are starting to develop much more consistent and more positive behaviors and starting to recognize we don't need to spend money in those areas because we need to be doing other things.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 20:28

Yeah, So for the benefit of our listeners, Squirrel is a platform that actually immerses the students into financial literacy games. Not games, as in the way you would think of it, but scenarios that would help them to learn how to make really sound financial decisions. Things like paying bills, things like renting a property, vehicle, things like saving for an emergency. All those fantastic things. What age group is it for right now?

Speaker 3: 21:05

At the moment we've got children on it from as young as sort of six years old up to about 13 years old. I mean, our plan is obviously to build it out all the way through to 18 and probably add three different versions of the platform, that sort of seven to 10, 11 to 14 and 15 to 18, but change the complexity as we build the platform and children, while still getting the same messaging and still developing the same habits, will be put into more complex situations as they get older.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 21:35

Brilliant, Oh quick one before we end the podcast. How can people find out more about getting their students onto the Squirrel platform?

Speaker 3: 21:45

You can find us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram or contact me directly email's, ben at Squirreleduco. So yeah, just get in touch. We'd love to speak to you and we'd love to see how we can help your students.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 22:00

Fantastic. And oh, one more thing before you go Is there a cost to schools?

Speaker 3: 22:06

No, that was one of the biggest things for us. I mean, we wanted to make sure that it was a very inclusive platform and there was too much conflict for us to say you know what we're going to build a or? we believe financial education is something every child on the planet deserves, but we're going to build a platform that's going to have this subscription and only some people will be able to afford it, so it's completely free to school Perfect.

Leisa Grace Wilson: 22:27

So Squirrel is completely free. Guys. I'm going to put all the links to Squirrel and the contacts for Ben in the show notes for the podcast. Go and definitely check it out, get it enrolled in your schools so that your students can start benefiting from the financial literacy that the platform provides, and obviously they will thank you later when they're not in credit card debt and struggling and having any any emergency fund or retirement savings. So I've seen a demo, little behind the scenes, of the platform. I love it. I think it's a really good idea And I think if students are introduced early enough, we can avoid a lot of the financial pitfalls as much as possible, because people learn and still do foolishness. But as much as possible we can avoid some of the financial pitfalls that people fall into later on in life. Thank you, ben, for being on the Teach Middle East podcast. Thank you so much for having me. You're welcome.

Ben Bolger: 23:32

Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. Visit our website teachmiddleeastcom and follow us on social media. The links are in the show notes.