The Delicate Balance: Trust, Well-being and Leadership in Education with Jan Taylor

Jan Taylor, an accomplished education consultant and former school leader, shares her wisdom with us. This episode is a treasure trove of advice on how to strike a work-life balance, the significance of self-awareness and emotional intelligence, and the often-overlooked aspect of self-care for educators. Jan, with her rich experience, challenges the convention of an always open-door policy, advocating instead for a balanced approach to it.

The episode concludes with an emphasis on the well-being of school leaders. Jan underlines the importance of reflection, averting burnout and how accessing coaching and mentoring services can amplify the benefits of leadership roles.

Bio: Jan has served in education for over 20 years and has experience working in a range of leadership roles.  As Head Teacher of an outstanding primary school, she led the school to become one of the highest-achieving primary schools in England.   After leaving headship several years ago, she followed her passion for developing others with a specific focus on new and aspiring leaders. 

Connect with Jan: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jan-taylor-coaching

https://www.jantaylorcoaching.com

https://www.facebook.com/jantaylorcoaching/

https://www.instagram.com/jan.taylorcoaching/

Jan Taylor (@jan.taylorcoaching) • Instagram photos and videos

Teach Middle East Magazine is the premier platform for educators and the entire education sector in the Middle East and beyond. Our vision is to equip educators with the materials and tools they need to function optimally in and out of the classroom. We provide a space for educators to connect and find inspiration, resources, and forums to enhance their teaching techniques, methodologies, and personal development. We connect education suppliers and service providers to the people who make the buying decisions in schools.

Visit our website:https://linktr.ee/teachmiddleeast

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Hosted by Leisa Grace Wilson

Connect with Leisa Grace:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/leisagrace

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leisagrace/

Teach Middle East Magazine is the premier platform for educators and the entire education sector in the Middle East and beyond. Our vision is to equip educators with the materials and tools they need, to function optimally in and out of the classroom. We provide a space for educators to connect and find inspiration, resources, and forums to enhance their teaching techniques, methodologies, and personal development. We connect education suppliers and service providers to the people who make the buying decisions in schools.

Visit our website https://linktr.ee/teachmiddleeast.

Tweet us: https://twitter.com/teachmiddleeast

Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/teachmiddleeast/.

Hosted by Leisa Grace Wilson

Connect with Leisa Grace:

Twitter: https://twitter.com/leisagrace

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leisagrace/

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:27

Hi everyone and welcome to the Teach Middle East podcast. This is Lisa Grace, and today I'm speaking with Jan Taylor, a former school leader, now education consultant, and we're talking about school leadership. We're talking about well-being, but we're particularly talking about people who are new to school leadership, and we want to dive into how you can set yourself up for success, especially as you go into this new role, as you take on lots of different responsibilities.

Speaker 2: 1:01

You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast connecting, developing and empowering educators.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Welcome, jan, to the podcast.

Speaker 3: 1:14

Hi and thank you for having me here. It's so nice to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:18

It is my pleasure. This all came from a post that Jan made on LinkedIn. You know I love a bit of LinkedIn people, so if you're not following me, get over there, follow me. I'll put my links in the show notes and I'll also put Jan's links in the show notes so you can follow her as well. And we kind of sparked a conversation because she was talking about some of the things that new school leaders should be aware of as they step into that role. So we're going to get into that, but before that, I love Jan to introduce herself.

Speaker 3: 1:50

Okay, thank you for that introduction there. Well, I've been in education for over 20 years now, and a headteacher of a primary school for around seven years. I left just under four years ago to pursue another career in coaching, and so I now coach new school leaders primarily. It was my passion when I was a headteacher so I really wanted to continue that enthusiasm for developing others on sponsored headships. So that's currently what I'm doing now and I get much joy in that. And you know, one of the proudest moments that I had when I was a headteacher, when I left my headship, was actually handing over my school to my senior leadership team the young people that I had coached. So that for me was, you know, one of the highlights, like me, and that's really what's driven me to pursue my new career in coaching, particularly of new school leaders.

Speaker 1: 2:50

Yeah, so they say, one of the hallmarks of a great leader is that you can also nurture and bring up coming school leaders into post. So that's a very good thing. And so, going back to that post that you made on LinkedIn, I thought, wow, here's somebody who is saying some of the things that I think are pertinent. Take me back to that post. What was in it and what made you write it?

Speaker 3: 3:16

Okay. So, as I said, since leaving headship, I've coached many new leaders and many experienced leaders as well, and you know they all come with this very, very similar challenges, and one of the main challenge is having that work-life balance. I don't think you'd never have that work-life balance. I think it's more about gaining harmony between work and life, and one of the things I've realized over talking to many leaders over several years is that there were a lot of assumptions out there about school leadership, about what you should do and what you shouldn't do and some of the things. Like you know, you think that you have to do everything yourself, that you have to know everything. You can't make mistakes, you have to be there for everybody all of the time. You can't really switch off. You know, teaching is a vocation and school leadership can be seen as a vocation as well, and it can become your whole life.

Speaker 3: 4:09

So really, I suppose that's what drove me to write that post in the first place. It was to challenge some of those assumptions about school leadership, and I'm trying to unconsolidate my own advice from when I was a school leader. It's about making those sensible decisions and it's about being sensible with your time, you know being a school leader now is really challenging, particularly post pandemic as well. The landscape seems to have shifted slightly and things seem to be a lot more harder. There's still lots of accountability. So I think it's really important for particularly new school leaders to ensure their self care, develop that self awareness, have that emotional intelligence, you know, because to have that longevity as a school leader. There were so many leaving the profession these days that we want to keep them. That that's the thing. So it really is building that self care into their daily practice.

Speaker 1: 5:12

I like that. I like the fact that you focused on self care. You know, it's amazing because now when schools are going back a lot of us in the international space you have teachers and school leaders making a post and they're saying I'm starting a new position as assistant head teacher, I'm so excited to be joining this school or that school and you can feel that excitement. And then, because I've worked in this space for such a long time, by October, november, you feel that excitement starting to wane quite a bit, because they would have really expended a whole lot of energy at the start and not really kept any in their tank for when things start to get a little bit more tricky. So I wanted to find out from you what are some of those things that really they ought to be very mindful of as they start this real energetic phase of oh, I'm a new school leader.

Speaker 3: 6:08

Okay, well, I think one of the things that I put on my case was quite controversial.

Speaker 3: 6:13

I think it is one of those things that you do need to be a little bit sensible about. School leaders often talk about having this open door policy. I had an open door policy and most school leaders that I know have this open door policy and it is things that are quite admirable thing to do. And, of course, it's really important to be a new school leader, to be visible, to be visible to your staff, to be visible to parents, to be visible to students as well. So we all have this open door policy, but I think we need to consider whether it's a really sensible thing to have all the time. So it's about keeping perspective on that open door policy. Obviously, there's lots of benefits to having an open door policy You've got there for everybody and you are visible. But there are also some disadvantages that open door policy too. So some of the disadvantages that I sort of see in that open door policy are things like you will have the same members of staff using that open door policy all the time and there will be some style that will be a little bit more apprehensive about approaching your open door, so in some ways it can be seen to be quite devising and exclusive to. So it's about setting up other means of communication so that all members of staff you know it's inclusive for everybody. So that's one of the disadvantages of having that open door policy all the time.

Speaker 3: 7:43

Having that open door policy as well. When you have staff come to see you about different issues which of course they will and you want them to Sometimes you have to give them autonomy. You know, sometimes there will be some staff that will want to come to you about everything, but actually they can probably sort of be issues themselves as well. So it's about obscuring them and that's all part of delegating as well, so allowing that to happen. I think that when it comes to parents and pupils, of course you need to let them know that you have this open-door policy, but again it can be quite divisive. Some parents might take advantage of it and some pupils too, and that's okay. You do need to be there for everybody. But you need to set up other systems. You have other systems in place that parents and pupils can talk to you and of course you'll be visible around the school day as well, whether that's in classrooms or corridors or in the hall or in the playground that people can talk to.

Speaker 3: 8:46

And one of my tips to having this open-door policy is that you can give that responsibility to some of your school leaders as well. It doesn't always have to be you. You can delegate that responsibility for them. So, if it's needed, at certain times in the week or all the school year, you might need to have your open door Open more times than others. But for me, mainly it's about being able to give your time.

Speaker 3: 9:11

As a school needser, you will have umpteen things to do. You'll have policies to write and courts to write, you'll have meetings to hold and, more obviously, you'll need that time and that space to reflect and to think. So if you are constantly being interrupted with your door being open, you're not going to have that quality time for thinking and reflection, and having your door open all the time is not really helpful in that way. So my tips are set expectations for your open door. Decide for yourself, as a new school needer, what day you're going to have your door open, what time you're going to have your door open, why you're going to have your door open, obviously, if there are, say, guarding concerns or child protection concerns, you will want to be on call, but it's really important to be sensible, have members of your team know when you're going to be available and ensure that your ways of communication, that those ways of communication are inclusive for all. So that's my advice for new school leaders is about being sensible with that assumption about having your door open all the time.

Speaker 1: 10:26

Yeah, you know, you said some fantastic things there, and one of the things I also remember from that post was the fact that you don't have to be on the school gates every single day. Because I remember personally being at the school gate every single day in maybe my first couple of years of leadership, because I thought that I needed to be there and, to be honest, I was shattered. I was really tired because I'm doing it in the morning, so I drive early into school and then I'd be at the gates, welcome and everybody, and yes, it was nice and everything, and then in the afternoons I'd still try to go out there, be at the gates, see dismissal and then I would go in and obviously after school there'd be a ton of meetings. So I was getting off my feet and then trying to then be in meetings and then try to drive home after that. I was just perpetually tired and so I love that. But what alternatives are there for people? If you know, being at the school gate every day is really not the best option?

Speaker 3: 11:32

Yeah, I mean it's very similar to having that. Open door policy is about being sensible and you know, and handing over that responsibility to your other team members can be empowering for them too. Like yourself, as a new school leader, I was determined to be at the school gate every morning and every afternoon, and the beginning I found it quite stressful because I didn't know all the children's names in my school and I didn't know the parents and I thought that I should know them. So when I've met them I wanted to use their names but I hadn't got to know them yet. So I found it quite stressful at the beginning. Obviously it became a lot easier but, as you say, it does eat up some of the time that you have during the day. It can disrupt meetings and you have to organise everything around it and there will be members on your team that can do that role just as sensibly as you can and just as well. So it's about setting those expectations at the beginning and not setting yourself up to fail, because if you make that agenda for yourself that you are going to be there every morning and every afternoon, and then you don't get to be there, then how will you feel about that. So when I was a headteacher I devised a voter for the gate for myself and my staff, and I think it helps in other areas of your leadership as well.

Speaker 3: 13:02

I mean, we talk a lot about emotional fatigue and compassion fatigue and we know that if you're all wrapped up at the gate, sometimes you can get bombarded with complaints from parents and other issues that you really don't want to get involved in. So those issues can be dealt with at other times of the day. Parents can email those in or talk to other members of staff. So it's really about safeguarding your own well-being in that respect as well. You don't want to start your day being at the school gate and hearing a complaint from a parent or anything detrimental about the school, because that can affect you for the rest of the day.

Speaker 3: 13:48

So it's about thinking about that as well. It's about safeguarding yourself. I remember being a headteacher and my chair of governor sames me when I had this mantra I must be at the gate at morning, I must be at the gate every afternoon. And he said to me you know, if you were a CEO of a big company, you will not be at the front door of your building every morning and every afternoon creating staff, so sometimes you have to make yourself, and this would be more remote, so not being available to everyone all of the time can be more sensible.

Speaker 1: 14:27

Yeah, no, you're right, I think it's. I don't know. It's something about us as teachers. We want to be all things to all people. I don't know where that's come from and a lot of that pressure is very, very internal. No one explicitly says to us that we've got to do these things, but for some reason we just internally feel as if we must be present, we must be at the gates, we must keep our doors open, oh, and we must walk around the classroom and we must say good morning to everyone every morning and we must, must, must, and that tends to really wear us down. But one thing I wanted to dive into with you as a new school leader, a lot of people will now start to manage people for the first time and it is not the same as managing a classroom of students and I think it trips up a lot of school leaders. Any tips on helping new school leaders manage human resource, as in the adults in the building?

Speaker 3: 15:29

Well, I think, as a coach for me to get clients, you know, clients need to know, like and trust me, and that's the thing that I try to get a bit in some of the posts that I put out there on social media. So I will share some of my own experience being a headteacher because I really think that, you know, clients won't come to me if they don't know me as a person and I think, as a school leader, it's about being authentic and about showing some of yourself. Of course, it's not sharing your whole life story with your staff you don't want them to know everything about you and they won't want to know everything about you. But it's about being authentic and I've always found that telling small anecdotes about my life helps us in our bonding with each other, so they're really getting to know me and me getting to know them as well. So I've often shared, particularly on those first couple of insect days. I would possibly share something that's happened to me over the school holiday or something that I've seen that I found quite interesting or impactful, and I shared that with them because I really do think that's the only need to know you.

Speaker 3: 16:47

There were different opinions about whether they need to like you. I think as human beings, inherently we all want to be liked by everybody. So, as a school leader, you know sometimes we do forget to say thank you. We all like praise, we all like being thanked, but you know, when we're busy sometimes we do forget to say thank you and give that praise. So it's about identifying people's strengths and noticing what people do and then commenting on that. I think I wrote a post once about saying thank you and giving praise, and I think somebody said that you shouldn't intentionally go around and do that, that it should be natural, and of course it should be natural. But what's to stop you from setting aside one day a week or one hour a week with the intention of thinking I'm going to go around and I'm going to say thank you to at least three people today? That's something that I have noticed, and it's also about listening to people as well. So really, if you're in the staff room and staff are talking to you, you know, listen to their stories, pick up on their family members, their names of their children, their names of the partners. You know what they like to do in the hobbies and reflect on that, you know a couple of weeks later with them, and I think that's really important to show that you listen to them and that you see them as family, you know, and in turn, you know they will come to see you, someone that appreciates them, and I think that's really, really important that we've talked about knowing, we've talked about liking, and then it's about them trusting you.

Speaker 3: 18:33

So don't make promises that you can't keep, you know. Don't set yourself up to fail, but be honest. You know, if they ask you for something, if you can't denigrate, then obviously be honest with them. It's about walking the talk. So if you say that you're going to do something, make sure that you do it. If you do promise them something and you, you know, do it in your power that you know the best that you can. If you can't, something happens, then be honest and like them too.

Speaker 3: 19:02

It really is about walking the talk, I think and stuff also needs to know that you have their back, and I think one of the things for me when I was a Jeppe Herd on a class teacher was knowing that my head teacher would support me in my role, and that's really important, I think.

Speaker 3: 19:23

So it's about that, that listening as well, and that supporting your staff. I think you know you made the distinction about children compared to the staff and team members, but sometimes they're not that dissimilar really, you know, because children, they have this really sense of fairness and they really like to be dissimilar to you. And your team members are exactly the same as well and they need to trust you. They need to trust that you're going to be fair, that you're going to listen to them, that you're going to value them, you know. So it's all those other things that come into play. So it's not monitoring to the sake of monitoring, it's not micromanaging, it's allowing people to do their jobs, it's trusting them. I think if you trust them to do their jobs well, then they will trust you. So it really is about for me, as a new school leader, it's about building that trust with your team. It's about them knowing you, about them liking you. That can be a little bit contagious, but it's about them trusting you.

Speaker 1: 20:26

Last of all, I think yeah, no, you're right, you're very right. I think sometimes we go and I used to do that a lot. I go. They don't have to like me, gosh, I've been through all the phases, haven't I? But I've come out on the other side. You do say that, but you know, deep down, if I reflect, I did want my teachers like me.

Speaker 1: 20:46

This summer I was going through the airport and I actually, in the line, met one of my teachers from my former school where I was the principal, and then she came up to me and gave me a hug and she goes oh, you're still a little bit of a legend in the school because she's still at the school. And I go. Why? And I go because people still remember those meetings they used to have, because I used to have these meetings called no Agenda. And so we go to the meeting and I go OK, so there is no agenda, tell me what's happening in the school, what do I need to know, what do I need to be aware of? And those meetings were fabulous. And so now she said to me gosh, I missed those no Agenda meetings, because now it's hard to tell people what's really going on.

Speaker 1: 21:30

I mean, they've got new leadership now and everything, but it's good. One thing that came to mind as you were talking, jan, was the fact that new leaders yes, there is no like and trust, but there are also times when they need to have difficult conversations with colleagues. Maybe it's about underperformance, maybe it's about serious incidences, maybe it's about different things. How do new school leaders broach the whole topic of difficult conversations? Because they must be bad.

Speaker 3: 22:02

Well, having difficult conversations is difficult, is it? And we quite often shy away from having those conversations, don't we? But it's about becoming brave. So I think, if you are having to have a difficult conversation around performance, maybe, or professional conduct or behaviors, it's about planning beforehand, and I think that's key to having those conversations, because that will empower you and that will make you feel more confident. So my advice for getting to those more difficult conversations is about going into those conversations, suspending judgments and assumptions about the person that you're having that conversation with.

Speaker 3: 22:51

So I was trying to go into that conversation, quite neutral, I suppose, and for me, when I have been planning those conversations, it's thinking about the impact of not having that conversation that really spurs me on to having that conversation. So what will be the impact if I don't have this difficult conversation with this individual? Who is it going to be impacted? Is it going to impact the pupils impact standards in the classroom? I'm not having this conversation. Or if I'm having a difficult conversation around staff members behavioural conduct, you know what's the impact of not having that conversation? If I don't have this conversation with this person, how is that going to impact the team? How is that going to impact staff morale. So that's always a driver for me when I'm having to approach those more difficult conversations.

Speaker 3: 23:50

So, as I said earlier, it's about planning those conversations. So thinking about, first of all, where are you going to hold that conversation? Are you going to hold it in your office or is there somewhere else more suitable to hold that conversation? I think if you're going to hold that conversation in your office it just makes it a more formal perhaps. So agreeing with the other person where you're going to hold that conversation is key beforehand. You know you need to think about where it's going to be more comfortable for them to have this conversation and thinking about when you're going to have this conversation. Obviously, at the Stultz School Day it's not going to be the best time to have that conversation when you're stressed and you know that you want to get your class ready. Having that conversation at lunchtime probably is it the best time to have a particular conversation with a member of staff because they need to have their break. We don't want to take that break away from them. And again at the end of the school day just before home time for that staff member. You know trying not to have that conversation. Then we know that the staff member may need to go home quickly for childcare. So it's really about planning. When and where that conversation is going to take place is going to be key, and then having all the facts and all the evidence to hand will help you feel more confident going into that conversation and then thinking about the language that you're going to be using within that conversation.

Speaker 3: 25:20

I often think you know if you're going to be using the. We're trying not to use the word but and but. You know, just try to use the word and rather than but, because sometimes I think that would be quite contentational. So, really thinking about the language that you're going to be using within that conversation with a member of staff and then highlighting some of the good things in that conversation as well. So if you're having a difficult conversation with a member of staff, just don't just pull on all the negatives but highlight some of the strengths too. That's going to be important and show you that you're appreciative of what they're doing.

Speaker 3: 26:00

And again, as in me, going into that conversation thinking about the impact of not having that conversation, really highlighting to your team members or member of staff about the impact of their underperformance or their behavior or conduct. You know, highlighting the impact of that, whether that's on the pupils or on other team members. It's really important to get them to see what might not be going quite well for them at the moment. It's about when you're in that conversation as well. It's being sort of clear about what you expect good performance to be, or good behaviors and good conduct. So it's showing the other person what that might look like and then devising a plan going forward. So it might be that you offer support to that staff member, it might be that you offer CPD and then setting the time and the date for review so that everybody is clear After the conversation.

Speaker 3: 27:13

I think it's really important, particularly as a new leader, to really reflect on what's going well in that conversation. What didn't you know, what made that conversation go well? Think about the language that you used, whether times in that conversation where you saw that staff member maybe you know weren't quite so happy. Did you pick up on their emotions? Did you pick up on your own emotions in your conversations? When did you feel your own energy, level of state? So only that. And what did you do to bring that to the present?

Speaker 3: 27:47

So it's really reflecting on that conversation afterwards and thinking to yourself well, what will make that if I had to have that conversation again, what would make that conversation better?

Speaker 3: 27:57

And then, after having that conversation, just ensuring that if you have written some notes about that conversation, sharing those with that staff member so that everybody is clear as to what took place and agreeing those, is going to be really important, I think. So keeping notes definitely, however informal that conversation might be, keep your clear notes because you know over time you will forget that you've had that conversation with that staff member, staff member. So keeping those notes is really important for any eventual future issue that you might need to bring up. So it's keeping all that evidence to hands, but also sharing it with the other person too, is really important. I think really what's key is having that time from reflection after the conversation that we're putting in then they go up before the conversation takes place and making sure that you're really prepared and you plan well for that conversation to make it as successful as it possibly can be for yourself and the staff member that you're having that conversation with.

Speaker 1: 29:05

Yeah, no, that's really good. I hope people will take notes from that, because that's like a tiny masterclass in how to have difficult conversations as a new school leader, and I think it's just a lot of value packed in there. A lot of people might listen to this podcast later on, because one of the good things about podcasts is their lifespan. You know, people can discover it three, four months down the road, when they're already in post, and so I feel like it's really appropriate for me to ask you this question. If someone has discovered this podcast, maybe three or four months in post or later, and at this time they're really feeling overwhelmed, they're really feeling like I did all the things that I should have done in an incorrect way, and now I'm at the brink of potentially burnout, potentially stress, how can they reel it back in? What are some steps that it can do to make sure that they get back on even keel and that they've started to take good care of their well being?

Speaker 3: 30:05

I think you know I talk a lot about prioritising you and I think you know they're all trying to be in your leadership, but actually you need to put the great thoughts on and you need to think about what will come to that. You know, as a school leader, we put everybody before ourselves. We put our staff before ourselves. We think about their well being. We plan for their CPT. We obviously put our children before our needs. You know we make sure they're safe, that they're well educated, that they leave our schools. You know, going on to the next stage of their education the best that they can be We've got our families there. You know the families that we serve. We deal with all those safeguarding issues or child protection issues. You know living crisis, everything that comes our way and then we go home and then we put our own families before ourselves. So quite often, as a school leader, we often place ourselves at the top of the park and I think sometimes you need to bring everything to a halt. You need to give yourself some time and space to reflect and you need to prior your time to you. Unfortunately, although things are getting better for school leaders and there are things out there that's for need is access such as counselling services and other things to help school leaders. Unlike other professions that have to do with lots of quite emotional issues, such as social workers, there's really still a lot that much to call out there for school leaders. I know of some trusts that actually provide coaching and mentoring and other things for their school leaders as a matter of course, but that is very few and far between, and I think as a school leader, what you need to do is to have that time and that space to offer that to somebody else. So I do think like getting some kind of coaching or mentoring can be really key. You know that supervision, that kind of clinical supervision.

Speaker 3: 32:09

As a headteacher, I know that when I've had to deal with sensitive issues during the day, whether that's with men's staff or children, you know things that are really confidential, that I can't share, that I've gone home with that burden and I've not wanted or have been able to upload to my partner, and so you keep all that emotional angst inside you and that can lead to compassion and it can lead to burnout. So you're working long hours, you're there for everybody. You know who is there for you. So I think it's really important to put the brakes on, to give yourself some time for that reflection, to prioritize you, whether that's your elemental health, or your physical health, or spiritually or mentally. It's really important that you build in those habits, start to build in those habits that it might be only a small thing each week, so it might be.

Speaker 3: 33:13

You know, as a headteacher, I remember placing a well-being performance management indicator on my staff's performance management.

Speaker 3: 33:23

I remember some staff saying to me I'm going to leave work early one day a week, or I'm going to go to the gym one day a week, or I'm going to do a mindfulness session a couple of times a week, and so it really is.

Speaker 3: 33:37

Building those small habits into your working week is key, but certainly putting all the brakes you know, identifying that you are in danger of being burnt out, overwhelmed maybe, or you know, or breaking down at the most serious, much serious level.

Speaker 3: 33:57

Putting the brakes on prioritizing you, thinking about yourself, think about eating your own CPD needs quite often that's called eating CPD needs last. And so when I'm thinking about how you're going to think about yourself as a leader and as an individual, that sort of start trying to build in those well-being habits to support you to become more resilient in your leadership, because I think you have to remember that you are the role model, the rest of the lotty, you're the role model for the more children too, and if you don't look out to yourself, then you're not going to be there to look out to everybody else. So I think that's key, and so you need to put the brakes on and think of yourself, prioritizing you. You might be six months into your leadership, you might be two years into your leadership, or 10 years into your leadership, but it's never too late, is it? To put yourself fast.

Speaker 1: 34:59

Wow, that is a fabulous place to end the podcast. It is never too late to put yourself first.

Speaker 3: 35:07

Thank you, jan. Thank you very much. It's been lovely to be here and it's lovely to speak to you.

Speaker 1: 35:12

Thank you, I really enjoyed our chat. I want to know where people can find you if they want to get in touch, if they want to learn more about your coaching programs and things you do to help school leaders, particularly new school leaders, make the most of their time in leadership. Where can they find you?

Speaker 3: 35:33

Well, they can find me on my website, which is wwwjantaylakecoachingcom. I'm on LinkedIn as well. I'm the Jantayler coaching. I'm on Instagram. I have my own Facebook page, jantayler Coaching. So, yes, so I think it's just Google Jantayler Coaching. Hopefully I will come up somewhere, produce a blog. So on my LinkedIn page you will find access to my blogs too, and on my website, and you have access to all my blogs and I'm making any post, leadership hints and tips for school leaders on there. So, yes, come and talk to me about anything that you wish to. I'm always open to have a discussion about any aspect of leadership, and if I can help anyone in any way that I can, then I am always available too.

Speaker 1: 36:25

Brilliant. Thank you, and we will put those links as well in the show notes. Thank you so much for listening to the Teach Middle East podcast.

Speaker 2: 36:34

Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. Visit our website teachmiddleeastcom and follow us on social media. The links are in the show notes.