How to Lead With Authenticity: A Conversation with Hannah Wilson

Grab a cup of your favourite beverage and join us for a heartfelt conversation with Hannah Wilson, the inspiring mind behind DiverseEd. This episode is tailor-made for school leaders eager to navigate the complexities of educational leadership with authenticity and resilience.

Hannah opens up about the power of inclusivity, the journey from WomenEd to DiverseEd, and the critical role of staff well-being in fostering a thriving school environment. We'll share strategies for embracing feedback constructively, balancing leadership demands with personal well-being, and building a supportive community that celebrates every individual's unique contributions. 

This discussion is not just about ideas; it's about actionable steps you can take to enhance your leadership journey and positively impact your educational community. 

Tune in to discover how to lead authentically and inspire those around you to do the same.

Teach Middle East Magazine is the premier platform for educators and the entire education sector in the Middle East and beyond. Our vision is to equip educators with the materials and tools they need, to function optimally in and out of the classroom. We provide a space for educators to connect and find inspiration, resources, and forums to enhance their teaching techniques, methodologies, and personal development. We connect education suppliers and service providers to the people who make the buying decisions in schools.

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Hosted by Leisa Grace Wilson

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:27

Hi everyone, this is Lisa Grace and welcome to the Teach Middle East podcast. Today I have Hannah Wilson and she is the founder and director of DiverseEd and she's going to be our guest today on the podcast. We're going to be talking all things leadership authentic, resilient, empowered leaders and that is in a lead up to you know what, the Middle East School Leadership Conference, which takes place in Dubai February 21 and 22, 2024. So if you're listening to this episode after the Middle East School Leadership Conference has passed, don't worry, it's coming back next year again, but hopefully you're listening to this before the event and you can register, because Hannah is joining us in Dubai from the UK and she'll be running a workshop on day one called guess what? Resilient, empowered, authentic leaders.

Speaker 2: 1:24

You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast connecting, developing and empowering educators.

Speaker 1: 1:34

Welcome to the podcast, Hannah.

Speaker 3: 1:36

Thank you for coming. It's great to be here.

Speaker 1: 1:37

It is my pleasure I actually followed you since hmm, I don't want to sound stalker-ish, but I'm going to say it's a fair few years, from your time with women Ed all the way through now to finding your own diverse Ed and doing amazing, amazing things. So, without sounding creepy, I've been snooping around in the Twitterverse, now known as X. I've been all over the LinkedIn and I love what you do. Tell us what are some of the things that you enjoy doing in your current role.

Speaker 3: 2:18

Okay, well, thanks for that, Lisa, it's not stalker-ish. It's been great to be connected with you as well. So after 20 years working in schools, I find it's a little privileged now to work independently. But I couldn't do what I'm doing if I hadn't done those 20 years in schools. I think it's really important to emphasise that that that's where my expertise and my credibility comes from.

Speaker 3: 2:36

The reason why I was one of the co-founders of women Ed is that we have got a gender inequality issue when it comes to education, that we are female heavy profession and we don't see that in leadership representation, particularly at headship executive, headship CEO, ship. So that's why I kind of joined the conversation. I did a lot of work pro bono around my day job as a deputy head at the time headteacher, speaking at events, mentoring, coaching, like really having a conversation about the female experience. But the more I dug into those conversations, the more I listened and learned about the intersectional experience of colleagues around me. So my identity is not particularly intersectional.

Speaker 3: 3:11

Yes, I'm a woman, but I'm a white woman, I'm a heterosexual woman, I'm an able-bodied woman. So, listening to others around me and their trials and tribulations, I also haven't got children Like what they explained to us back at being a parent, kind of like in the leadership ladder that led to diverse Ed, because we wanted to have a wider, more holistic conversation about the identity of leaders. And I love my job because I basically spend all day, every day, thinking about culture, thinking about leadership, helping people through coaching, helping people through training, to think about the kind of schools we want to be co-designing, co-creating and the kind of leadership mould we want to be reshaping, because I do think and I'm going to get into this that we've got quite a traditional model when it comes to schools and leadership and I'm quite disruptive, but I want to disrupt them and break them up and show them there's a different way, really, of doing things we've done quite consistently for a long time.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Yeah, I love that. I love that word there disruptive Because I feel like we can't get anything done until we disrupt what is there, and it's not disruption for disruption's sake. We're not trying to be disruptive just to cause problems. We're trying to be disruptive to bring solutions to problems that we have identified and not just us, but there are many of us who've identified that there is a problem and that the system is ripe for disruption.

Speaker 3: 4:33

So I really believe that we need to be more disruptive, but that disruption needs to be done in a mindful way, in a positive way, in a constructive way, like you say, not disruption for the sake of disruption. I think sometimes change leadership, we end up changing everything, actually the things that we're working. But for me, it's like the call to action is actually the courage to do things differently. I think sometimes we play it safe and we do it the way that everyone else is doing it, but if we keep doing the same, we're going to keep getting the same, and it's having the courage to perhaps challenge the status quo and to look at doing things differently.

Speaker 1: 5:02

Yeah, and I think as well. When you think about something that's ripe for change, it is something that's making quite a lot of people uncomfortable, and we ought to start looking around us, on our systems, on our structures, to say what's bringing great discomfort to a large number of people, that's what's ripe for disruption. Do you see what I mean?

Speaker 3: 5:27

Yeah, absolutely, and I think often we do the disruption for the sake of and in the name of the children, and obviously we're in service of our pupils and our learners. But we need to disrupt some things for the sake of our staff, and I think that's sometimes a more uncomfortable conversation and it feels like a higher risk disruption, but actually we need to serve our staff in order to serve our students and for me, it's how all those domino pieces come together.

Speaker 1: 5:51

Yeah, john Tom said, spoke to us on the podcast about why it's important to put staff first. It's a podcast episode I listened to over and over again because it was such a rich conversation about the benefits to students and the entire school community when staff's needs are met and they are put first.

Speaker 3: 6:14

Yeah, absolutely. I love the work John and Johnny do and we're associates actually of putting staff first and thinking about the well-being piece, the flexible working piece, which I know they both do really well in their trusts, but also think about the diversity piece and the lived experience piece of putting staff first and us recognising who might not feel seen, heard, valued, and that piece I think is really key as well.

Speaker 1: 6:36

Yeah, I mean we could go on and on about that because it's such a necessary conversation, but let's talk a little bit about resilient, empowered, authentic leaders. Now, in your view, what distinguishes a genuinely impactful educational leader from a conventional one? Good question.

Speaker 3: 6:56

I think it is about us considering what we've been told and taught about leadership and thinking about the leaders that we want to be and could be, and not feeling like we are trying to switch ourselves into a mould the Jermaine Cooke is a feminist, a critical feminist, and she talks about a lot of women in particular trying to fit a man-shaped mould when it comes to leadership, and I think we need to actually stop the binary around masculine and feminine leadership. This is about I like to think about inclusive leadership, like courageous leadership, like what sort of branding of leadership do we need really as a world, as a sector? And I think we've seen a real shift since the pandemic. If we look at the kind of the countries that really navigated COVID in a positive way, they all had female heads of state. They all led in a very inclusive way, a very authentic way. There was courage, but there was vulnerability as well, and that gave me quite a lot of hope for the kind of leadership that we could look to as models moving forward, those visible role models.

Speaker 3: 7:55

So for me, I think we need more leaders to think about inclusion of everybody and not just to consider their own inclusion. We need more leaders to model that authenticity and to bring their whole selves to their own and to their schools. We also need more leaders to embrace vulnerability, and I've just been on call this morning with a group of heads and that's the bit that makes us feel most uncomfortable, like acknowledging what we don't know, acknowledging what we've not experienced. But that's me is where the power really sits, with how we activate the staff and how we bring the staff who do know in and we kind of redistribute the power.

Speaker 1: 8:31

Yeah, it is interesting when we talk about bringing our whole selves. A lot of times we're scared to bring the weaker sides of us because we think, oh my god, people are going to step over me, they're going to think I'm just weak. How do we get over that feeling that mine said?

Speaker 3: 8:47

I think it goes back to another binary, doesn't it? I love the quote from Nelson Mandela there's no such thing as winning and losing. There's winning and learning, and I don't see like the language of weaknesses. For me it's areas, development, like we're thinking about what are we good at, what are our strengths, what do we know we've got in our bag and how are we exercising that and where do we need to pay attention? What gaps have we got? What do we need to invest in?

Speaker 3: 9:09

We are all learners, we are all on a journey. We are all like itch-a-lating and evolving. We shouldn't think we've done deal. No one has done deal as leaders, and I think that's where some leaders get it wrong. And the only way we learn is by taking feedback and taking advice, and that's courageous in itself, isn't it that we're asking for feedback about what's working and what's not working, but then we can listen and we can learn and we can modify and we can do things differently, moving forward. So for me, there's a whole cyclical process there that we need to embrace as leaders.

Speaker 1: 9:39

Yeah, someone I was listening to on a podcast the other day said feedback is a gift and we should accept it as such. But you know, sometimes it's so hard to get feedback from the people you're managing. So you're a leader and you're leading a team and they're giving you feedback about your areas for development. It takes a whole lot of self-awareness to be able to take on board that kind of feedback. How do you believe self-awareness contributes to effective leadership, especially in our sector?

Speaker 3: 10:14

Let me speak about feedback first of all, though, because I think we have a very clear, explicit feedback culture when it comes to our pupils and how they learn and how we give them feedback and how we help them. I don't think we always have a clear, formal, explicit feedback culture when it comes to the staff. I think there's quite a lot of unsolicited feedback out there that actually isn't very helpful, like I'm really open to feedback, but it needs to be contracted, it needs to be formalized, it needs to be in a carver, frequency and a consistency. Not anyone can come up to me and give me feedback when I'm perhaps not ready to receive it. So I think there's a piece there for us to think about the conditions around the awareness piece. So the framework I'm going to introduce through the workshop is called Resilient Leaders Elements, and it's a carver leadership framework that you can use to develop self-awareness but also awareness of others and awareness of your environment, and I think that triangulation is really important, that some people are hyper self-aware but aren't aware of others, others are really acutely aware of others but not aware of themselves, and the environmental piece is kind of the context in which we're leading.

Speaker 3: 11:16

So, thinking about policies, processes, the community, the context and what we need to do differently, and we need to pay attention to all three points of that triangle. So for me, the self-awareness piece is where we need to start. We use the metaphor of looking in the mirror before we look out the window, and really it's about deep reflection, deep introspection, so like confronting things in ourselves with perhaps within denial about all we've not been aware of. And for me, the thing that really unlocks that is coaching. I think I've definitely increased myself awareness through feedback and through coaching and using the coaching to unpack the feedback and vice versa, and then stepping into the domain of others, where you do begin to ask for and receive feedback, but it's how you then act on it. So for me it's a bit of a carver process we need to go on and it's about how we, I guess, kind of like capture, collate and process all that data around us and how that data then informs us and makes us better, stronger, more resilient as leaders.

Speaker 1: 12:13

Yeah, you said something there that really stuck with me that you should look in the mirror before you look out the window. And that is key, because until you know exactly what you're bringing, then it's very, very hard for you to then start looking at others and then saying oh, you know, there's a lack here and there's a that there and there's a. Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 3: 12:36

Yeah, it's why it's going to glass ceilings, isn't it that it's much easier and safer to critique what's going on there than it is to critique what's going on right here. But for me, that's the openness, the vulnerability. The one is to learn that we're modeling what it means to be a self-reflective leader and we're expecting others to do the same, and it becomes a kind of a leadership culture. Really, it does.

Speaker 1: 12:58

It does. How do without giving away too much, because you have to come to the workshop people to get the full tools and everything right. But for those who might have missed it and are listening to this podcast afterwards, give us a couple of tips of how they can start to develop this level of self-awareness.

Speaker 3: 13:17

So for me, there's a couple of different things you need to do. It's about creating space and time in your hectic schedules. The one thing we are collectively poor of in education is time and we need to make that time and carve out that time. So I actually have a three hour block in my diary every week called Space. Don't put it in my diary. I know we've had a chat on LinkedIn about this. I need that. If I don't put it there, it won't happen. It's not on the same day at the same time and if my diary gets full I then have to really think about is the other thing more important than we're having that time to process and to reflect? And if I'm going to move it, where's it going to move to? So I think that is really important. We put in the pause points.

Speaker 3: 13:56

Some people like to journal and they like to write it out. I like writing. I also blog. Sometimes it's writing to process it, but you're also publishing it to help other people. So that's how I like to process what's going on for me and as a brand new headteacher, I blogged every Sunday for two years and it really helped me process the journey and me developing as a headteacher.

Speaker 3: 14:16

Other people like to talk it out, whether that's with a critical friend or a peer or a line manager or a coach. I like to process it and writing first and then perhaps be coached on particular things that come up with me that I can't block me later. So for me it really needs to be a habit that we create and we stick to and we build it into and we value the importance of it and that we have those really open, honest, courageous conversations about what's working and what's not working and how people are experiencing us. I think, because I've always been quite direct and quite confident, I've always received quite a lot of feedback because people know I can take it. But I've worked with people who have been a little bit more fragile when it comes to feedback and they haven't received as much feedback. So I think it's like my resilience has almost enabled me to then become a more self-aware leader. So the resilience piece of how we are robust enough to perhaps hear some of the hard truths I think is quite key as well.

Speaker 1: 15:14

How do they develop that level of resilience? Because that's super important.

Speaker 3: 15:18

It is Well. I credit quite a lot of it to my parents and how they brought me up. We can't change two parents, but I think I was brought up in a household where we were quite an honest, candid family and feedback was something Like we gave each other feedback all the time. If that's not how you've been brought up in nurtures, I think it's creating that circle around you. In those conditions, we talk quite a lot in my work about critical friendships and how we have to be quite strategically intentional about our circle, our circle of trust. Who's in it, how we support each other and learning with each other and how have we co-created and contracted, how we've been challenged to one another, because actually they are the best people to give you the most honest feedback because they're really invested in you.

Speaker 3: 16:00

I was on the training this morning. I was using Kim Scott's model of radical cancer about how we need to care personally but challenge directly and balance off those two things. It's about caring and challenging equitably and that I had been brought up in school cultures where there's been quite a lot of challenge but not always a lot of care. I coach a lot of people who are in culture with a lot of care but not a lot of challenge. Neither of those two binaries are helpful. We need both. We need to challenge, but challenge with care, and care, but care and still challenge. And that's what leads to that project being opened up, where we really have profound change and we can grow because our awareness is aligned.

Speaker 1: 16:38

Yeah, it's important when we look at our circle of trust that you've mentioned, because when you are a school leader it can be quite isolating and sometimes you're in a certain group of schools. So out here we're quite private school oriented, right, you're in a certain circle, but these are people that are within the same group of schools and you might not be able to get that outside perspective, that nuance that you get from people who are from another background, another train of thought, etc. And so one of the reasons why I'm always advocating for people to go out, go to leadership conferences, go to different places, meet people, is because it helps you to expand that circle of trust and so that you can then call on people and go. Here's a scenario. I won't give you too many specifics, but how would you deal with it? And then you get some real fresh perspective and you might get some radical candor.

Speaker 3: 17:36

Yeah, I really agree with you and that's definitely how I've been. The reason why I co-founded Women Ed was that I was the only female on SLT a big secondary SLT and I needed to build my circle and have peers and critical friends who were also young-ish female leaders in sort of male dominant teams, so I could have someone, like you say, to pick up the phone and talk through those scenarios with. But we had contracted that relationship and it was kind of in a green space, a safe space for us both. So I'd also add that, like I think a lot of people wait for the network to come to them and you have to be out there to connect and build network and use the word outward Another part of the leadership that I really truly believe it has been outward facing.

Speaker 3: 18:19

I think one of the problems in schools is that it can sometimes be quite insular but it's quite a lot of a wash machine cycle of repeating the same thinking, the same behaviors and we know through Raph-Machy Said's rebel ideas that that leads to group think and we need to consciously create that cognitive dissonance that we're not just having confirmation bias and everyone's just telling us we're great and we're doing a great job and we don't hear any constructive feedback. That's not helpful for any of us, but I do think you have to intentionally put yourself out there, connect with people, leverage those relationships, invest in those relationships and those relationships do, in turn, feed you and fuel you and there's mutual reciprocity, I think, for those relationships as well.

Speaker 1: 19:01

Yeah, for sure, for sure. So a lot of the people who are coming to the conference are either at vice principal level, assistant principal, and they're looking now to go into their first head shift and I wondered what are some of the common challenges that you've observed that educators face when they're trying to make that step up into leadership?

Speaker 3: 19:24

It's a massive transition point, isn't it? Because I don't think you can truly understand a principal's role until you're doing a principal's role, but there's parts of it you are exposed to. I was coaching a deputy head this week who's going through a headship interview at the moment, and the big gaps are often finance and HR that you haven't been exposed to those parts of the school working at the deputy head, or you've done them in an operational sense but not a strategic sense. So what? I would flip that and encourage people to ask for that sponsorship and to ask for that chavamane and to ask for that exposure that you're getting it before you apply, before you're starting a job, rather than waiting to learn it on the job. So that's just one thing perhaps asking for what you need and seeking out those opportunities to close some of those gaps. Going back to this idea of your awareness, your self-awareness around your strengths, your areas of development, I've got a really simple technique that a vice principal used with me when I was assistant principal, that I use with lots of people who I coach, where you get out a job description and you rag rate it. So you get out a green, a yellow and a pink highlighter and you highlight in green all the bits you're confident and competent at, in yellow the bits where you know you've got emerging confidence and competence based on your remit, your roles, responsibilities this year. And your pink bits are the bits to pay attention to and you need to go and find people to teach you the pink bits. So as an English teacher, I was really good at the relationship piece, the staff training piece, but data was my kind of my Achilles heel and my deputy head was a massive craft-like spreadsheet pivot table guru and he taught me the pink bits. He taught me that data insight, that data analysis piece. So the pink bits became yellow. So for me, like we need to have an intentional self-development piece where we're really thinking about it.

Speaker 3: 21:04

The second piece I think is also networking with people at the next tier to you. So through Women Ed, I was really lucky. I built a brilliant network and I had loads of serving heads or retired heads around me who were so generous with their time and their energy and their expertise that I could bring them and talk through situations or ask for their advice. So I think that that pain forward and I saw you exchange with Dianne Asaki on LinkedIn recently, like finding people who resonate with you and saying do you have time for a chat, do you have capacity to support me? I'm looking for sponsorship, I'm looking for some mentoring. So again, I think it's being proactive sometimes.

Speaker 1: 21:42

You know, people tend to think that people won't respond to them or they'll get shut down. I promise you my listeners and if you're watching on YouTube, people are so much kinder than you think. I've seen that so much since I've started working as a middle leader in schools, all the way up to leadership and right back around now to working in journalism, in education. People will. Of course, there'll be people who will say no, but people will be so generous with their time and expertise it will shock you. I've asked questions of people that I've only like, dreamt of asking and I went. You know what? They could just say no, and then they'll still be where I am right now. And they didn't say no. They said oh, of course I don't have a lot of time. I'll give you 30 minutes. In my head I would have taken five minutes and be happy.

Speaker 3: 22:33

And it is also like if I haven't got capacity like I do get asked quite a lot to do chats and review applications and stuff if I have a good capacity I'll put it out to my network and say, does anyone have some time to support an aspiring deputy head? And someone else will pick it up. So I think it's the snowball effect of that generosity of spirit as well. And that's where I think Women Ed is a very generous community and I know there's a UAE chapter. So connecting with that group and finding out who's involved and going to some of those networking events and sort of thinking about what you need but also what you can contribute, because for me it needs to be kind of a transactional exchange that you can help someone else, they can help you, and kind of the generosity gets pinged around.

Speaker 1: 23:13

Yeah definitely, and so one of the other things I wanted to talk to you about briefly before we wrap up the podcast is about creating that balance. So of course, you're going to strive, you're going to get into these leadership roles and we want at all costs to avoid burnout Like we want to avoid it like the plague. But then how do you, as a school leader, maintain that balance without burning out or compromising your effectiveness as a leader?

Speaker 3: 23:41

I think this is the optimum question, isn't it? And it's one that comes up a lot with different people who I work with. Like, one of the metaphors we use is putting on your own oxygen mask first.

Speaker 1: 23:51

That.

Speaker 3: 23:51

I think a lot of educational leaders identify as being servant leaders and they're very much in service of their people, of their staff, their community, sometimes to their own detriment, sometimes to their own expense, and they think they're being selfless. But, like my refamers, you're being a bit selfish. You look after yourself. You're no good to anyone. So actually, it's recognising that your self-awareness piece and your self-care piece are really vital. So in the RLE framework, some of the questions you have to ask of yourself is do I know when I move from pressure to stress? Am I aware of the things that shift me from healthy pressure to unhealthy stress? What signals, triggers do I need to be aware of? And do the people around me know what to account for? And I was using this with the SLT and foster, two schools last week and 80% of them knew exactly what slipped them from one to the other, and two of them didn't know. And I said well, that's a self-awareness piece, isn't it? If you ask three of your colleagues, they're probably going to tell you exactly what stresses you out and how you behave differently when you are experiencing stress. But do you also know how to counter it and to rebalance? Because the self-awareness piece that might have awareness pieces. Sleep. If I'm stressed, the best thing I can do is go to bed and have an early night and get some sleep and attack it in the morning. But a lot of people's tendency would be to stay up late, get the work done, be shattered and then not be on it the next morning for their lesson or their presentation or their assembly. So we quite often fall into a counter-intuitive behaviour pattern. So it's how we can recognise that. So I think the self-care piece is really key.

Speaker 3: 25:24

I think part of self-care is about establishing and maintaining boundaries and being really clear on our boundaries. So what are my boundaries Is that email is for work and WhatsApp is for friends and family, and I don't engage in WhatsApp's about work because once I get out of my inbox six o'clock at night on the weekends, I don't want work. So I've come into my WhatsApp. So that's a boundary I've established. But I also maintain and I'll just gently say let me to hear from you. Please can you email me and I'll pick it up on Monday. I also do that on Twitter and on LinkedIn.

Speaker 3: 25:52

The other thing around self-care that I've read a brilliant article a few years ago from the Harvard Business Review about and this might be a UK-centric thing we're obsessed with time management and what we should be obsessed with is energy management. We've been watching our energy flow and managing our energy flow, not managing our time and ultimately, by managing our energy we become more efficient and more effective. So my energy is fueled by sleep, also fueled by what I eat, what time I get up, things about the kind of different categories in my working day and my working week and I color code my diary. I can look at what kind of day or week I'm going to have by the color coding of my day. So I can then think why didn't early night before that?

Speaker 3: 26:34

Because that day I've got loads of like big things to do. Was that day quite a nice day? I can go out for dinner that night and get a bed a little bit later. So I think that awareness piece of how it all fits together is really important as well. I need to work on that.

Speaker 1: 26:47

That's my full transparency, guys. I need to work on that. I need to figure out how to make my calendar work better for me, something I'm struggling with because, as I become busier, as I take on more projects, as I work with bigger and more global organizations, I find that I'm like oh my god, I need a minute. I need a minute and so I need to figure that color coding thing. Hannah has been helping me, you guys. She's been helping me because I really need to figure out that color coding piece and to really look at my days. You know how many greens I got to figure that out. I'll come back to you guys on that.

Speaker 3: 27:32

Yeah, come back to me and let us know how you're getting on with that. Because I think, like one of my tips is you map it all out in advance so no one comes to me and says, can I have a meeting with you 10 o'clock on Tuesday. They say, when can you do a meeting on Tuesday? And I would say 10, 15 or 12 o'clock. So I've already put in my 15 minute pause points that I coach for an hour, have a 15 minute break, coach for an hour, have a 15 minute break. So your point about your diary has got to work for you. I think we're often trying to be a people pleaser and say yes to things. You can say yes and or yes, but yes, can we and make it work for you as well. That's not your being difficult, it's you pushing that boundary.

Speaker 1: 28:11

Yeah, okay, guys, see, I'm taking it on board. So, for this is key. Hannah, before we finish the podcast, can you just give a little sound bite? What should people expect? So they're coming to the school leadership conference, they're going to sit in your workshop, or they don't even know about it. This is the first time they're going to hear about it, so I'm going to put you on the spot, give it a little bit of a sound bite. Why should they come out? Why should they take part?

Speaker 3: 28:39

Okay, I'm going to put it as a question. Okay, so I want you to be curious about what does it mean to you to be a resilient and proud, authentic leader? I'm saying this to the audience and I want you to come with that openness and willingness to get curious, but also to be challenged to think differently about some of those things. We perhaps take people on to it. I am a coach. I tend to find my training through coaching, but I don't necessarily give you all the answers. I give you all the questions, so that will bring self awareness and get you exploring, and I also don't talk at you. My session will be interactive. There'll be lots of reflection, lots of table discussion, or you'll be sharing best practice and showing challenges to collectively portray some of the solution.

Speaker 1: 29:19

You heard it, guys, straight from the presenter herself, so get your tickets and get out there, and if you're listening to this afterwards, then you missed it. Sorry, but you didn't miss everything. Hannah works with schools, and so I will put all her details, her links, in the show notes of the podcast. If your school or your school group want to reach out to her for coaching, for training she has loads of different programs that she does you can get in touch with her. You can schedule her. You can't just jump on her today for tomorrow, though. This needs planning. She's a busy lady, but you can book her and she can coach virtually. She can come out and coach your school as well, and, as I do have listeners from all across the Middle East, she will come to you if it's scheduled in time or it can be done online. Thank you so much for being on the podcast, hannah.

Speaker 3: 30:14

My pleasure. Thanks for having me, and please look at all the free resources on my website as well. There's a podcast as a blog, so if you're interested in this theme, do go and have a look at all the content there.

Speaker 1: 30:22

Fantastic.

Speaker 2: 30:26

Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. Visit our website teachmiddleeastcom and follow us on social media. The links are in the show notes.