Teach Middle East Podcast
Welcome to the Teach Middle East Podcast, the ultimate audio hub where educators find inspiration, share innovative ideas, and grow together! Brought to you by Moftah Publishing—the minds behind the premier Teach Middle East Magazine—this podcast is your gateway to the latest research-based practices, cutting-edge classroom strategies, and the heartwarming stories of educators from the Middle East and around the globe.
As the only podcast that interviews school leaders from across the Middle East and beyond, we offer unparalleled insights into the challenges and successes that shape educational landscapes in diverse settings. Join us as we dive deep into the fascinating world of education, where every episode promises a treasure trove of insights designed to connect, develop, and empower the brilliant minds shaping our future. Whether you’re seeking fresh perspectives, practical tips, or a dose of inspiration, the Teach Middle East Podcast is your must-listen resource. Tune in and transform the way you teach!
Teach Middle East Podcast
Revolutionising the Way We Teach and Learn with Eric Sheninger
This episode is an invitation to educators to question the status quo and envision a schooling experience that embraces competency-based learning, dismisses outdated structures, and designs spaces that inspire creativity and cater to student preferences. Eric doesn't shy away from the tough questions about the reality of our educational practices and the need for vulnerability and frankness in assessing and serving the needs of our students.
Bio: Eric works with schools throughout the world, helping educators meet and exceed their potential to improve outcomes for learners. He is the founder and CEO of Aspire Change EDU, a collaborative consultancy designed to provide personalized support to all educational systems. Prior to this, he was a teacher and the award-winning Principal at New Milford High School. Under his leadership, his school became a globally recognized model for innovative practices. Eric oversaw the successful implementation of several sustainable change initiatives that radically transformed the learning culture at his school while increasing achievement.
His work focuses on innovative and practical ways educators can transform teaching, learning, and leadership. Through his work with thousands of schools, Eric has emerged as an innovative leader, best-selling author, and sought-after speaker. His main focus is using research and evidence-based practices to empower learners and educators. See where Eric is speaking and if he will be in your area at the bottom of this page. For booking inquiries, email him directly at esheninger@gmail.com.
Join us and be part of reimagining education for a future where learning knows no bounds.
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Hi everyone. This is Lisa Grace and I would like to welcome you to the Teach Middle East podcast. Again, you know what it is. Thank you to everybody. Last week we hit 15,000 downloads on the last episode. So listen you guys, you rock, you rock. I am so grateful to you. One episode, 15,000 downloads. It was great. Thank you to Steve, who was my guest. But today that's not what the show is about. I just wanted to show gratitude at the top of the episode. So you guys know that we are very much paying attention to the listenership and paying attention to the viewership.
Speaker 2:You are listening to the Teach Middle East podcast connecting, developing and empowering educators.
Speaker 1:Today I've got Eric Scheninger on the podcast with me. Eric is prolific. If you don't know who he is, he is a thought leader in this space. I've been following him on the X, formerly known as Twitter, for years, and then he came to Dubai and I thought I have to get him on the pod. So he was here in Dubai in October. Couldn't get him on the pod then, but I have him on the pod now. Welcome Eric.
Speaker 3:Oh, it is my honor to be here, Lisa. I cannot wait to chat.
Speaker 1:Yay, he's written loads of books. So you guys, if you haven't read any of Eric's books, I would love you to. Oh, and his blog is Brill, so go to ericksheningercom. We're going to link it in the show notes. You've got to go there, You've got to read his blog posts and you've got to get on top of your CPD with all the stuff that he puts out there in the others for free. And, of course, show your love by buying the book. Eric wanted to talk about designing tomorrow's classroom, just for a little bit. I know we want to talk about disruptive thinking, but just a little bit about designing tomorrow's schools. What are we doing wrong right now with the way schools are?
Speaker 3:Well, I don't like to look at things as right or wrong, good or bad. I think you have to take an honest lens to determine whether the conditions, the pedagogy, our assessment, our learning spaces, are they in line with the reality of the world that we now live in? And so I think it's like you know, when we think about humans, we are very influenced by experience. We often teach the way we are taught, we lead the way we are led, and I think that we are a little bit shy and reserved when it comes to changing how our classrooms are structured, how we teach and what we're preparing students for. So I think it's more about being honest and vulnerable in order to really ask the question. You know are we serving our learners to the best of our ability, based on the world today and what it's going to be in the future?
Speaker 1:You're right, you're right, I stand corrected. Guys, you know right or wrong, good or bad isn't exactly the right way to start off, but if you were to design the ideal school of tomorrow, what are some of those keys that we need to bear in mind?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we have to look at removing archaic structures like bells, seat time, static schedules, because that's really not the world of work I mean.
Speaker 3:When you think about I mean, do we go anywhere on a job and hear bells? I know, right now I'm working, I'm working in my garage here in Houston, texas, and there's no bells. It's very fluid. So I think we got to really focus on more towards a competency-based approach where students can progress based on demonstrated knowledge whether it's how they can read, call, but also how they can construct new knowledge, how they can apply, and I really think it's about focusing on those critical competencies. We want our learners to be active engagers, creative scholars, reflective learners, be able to self-regulate. So I think we really need to look at the structure of school itself and not just coursework, but also how we design our spaces. When we think about learning space design looking at everything from furniture, layout, color, lighting, acoustics and really think about does this space then match the pedagogy that's truly going to help students be able to learn in ways that are more preferential?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you said something there that was so poignant. You said the way we structure our learning spaces. When we look at the classroom nowadays, it hasn't really changed that much. We still have those desks, we still have chairs, and we might put them in little groups now if we want to be fancy, but a lot of the times there are so rows. What I wanted to find out from you is why do you think we stuck with that design for so long?
Speaker 3:Because it's what we are used to. It's the same setup where we learned, and it was quote-unquote successful for us because many of us just complied. We played the game of school. We went in, we sat in our desks, we took those lectures. We then took a test, did our homework, rinse and repeat, because that is what we experienced as students when we were trained to become teachers. We haven't really known anything different. Same thing as administrators, administrators. A lot of times and I was guilty of this I was great at protecting the status quo. That's the way we've always done it. It's always worked.
Speaker 3:When we think about the driver globally, we want to do really, really well on PISA. Let's talk about nothing. No student wakes up or years from now is so excited about how they did on PISA. They don't care. They comply with the culture that we establish and what it really has become is quite stagnant. I think we have to look at are we really aspiring for control and compliance, or do we truly want to roll up our sleeves and really think about getting comfortable with being uncomfortable? If we continue to do what we've always done, we'll get what we've always done. In this rapidly changing world, that just doesn't cut it anymore.
Speaker 1:It doesn't. Here's the thing, though how do we begin to dismantle these structures?
Speaker 3:I think it really begins with asking the right questions. As I work with educators across the world, what I try to do is get them to be uncomfortable and to get them to really reflect on why are you doing things the way you do them? How might you do it better? Ultimately, what tells you if you are successful? I think when we ask, well, why are we doing it, the answer really is because that's all we've ever done. I think how can we do it better? What tells us if we're actually successful? That's where it really takes that honesty and vulnerability to really look at.
Speaker 3:Are our actions truly having a positive impact on our students? When we look at just how the job market is changing, we can even sit here and talk about the value or the non-value of college degrees. There's a lot of things that we can really get into because information is there. Information is there. Schools have been very good at giving information. When we think about giving information, how do we teach our students not just how to access it or how to vet it, and how to turn it into something that's truly beneficial to them, that's going to give them a leg up when they decide, hey, this is what I think I might want to try to do during the first leg of my life, because we all know, listen, the crazy thing is, I have a degree in marine biology and now I speak all over the world on educational transformation. I'm doing things that I was not trained specifically to do, and I think that that's where the concept of competencies is so important. If you have those competencies, we want to future proof learning for our students, so that they are ready for whatever's thrown at them.
Speaker 3:In my latest book, disruptive Thinking, I really talked about this concept of don't prepare students for something. Prepare them for anything. We don't know what that something is anymore. We don't know what the jobs are going to be. We don't know what our students truly are going to need in regards to if they want to be an accountant, a lawyer. But preparing students for anything that really is the foundation of future proofing learning for our students. And what does that entail? Scappling our questions, giving them really challenging problems to solve that have more than one answer, getting them to relevantly apply their learning to real-world contexts. You know, looking at how we've ensured purposeful, learner-driven use of technology, the students should be using technology to learn in ways they couldn't without it. Thinking about personalization, all learners getting what they need when and where they need it. And, finally, designing spaces that really reflect and function like the world that our students need to be successful in.
Speaker 1:There's so much richness, there just a lot. Okay. So here's the dilemma that we face. The teachers want to make this change. Many administrators have seen, because the case is clear, but for some reason there is a conflict as to what comes first. Do the policies have to change first? Do governments have to change first? Where does the change start? Because you have, for example, teachers who want to completely redo the way we do schools, but they can't upturn the timetable, they can't abolish the bells, Do you understand? So where is this change? So what needs to be ignited? Where does it need to start, Eric?
Speaker 3:Oh boy, that is a $1 question. I think when we look at policy and I think when we look at how we're developing policy, we have to really ask ourselves to those people who are developing it, what is the main positive impact that that policy is going to have on our students. And I think it really comes down to really having some challenging conversations about what really is the goal of the policy. And I hear you, I work with some schools that have no bells, but I also work with a lot of schools that do. I also work with a lot of schools that have desks in rows. And I really think about it.
Speaker 3:Is this Often human nature? We focus on things we cannot control. We, ultimately, as a teacher and administrator, we might not be able to control bells, but how do we really focus our energy on what we can control? And this is my message to every teacher, every administrator what can you control as a teacher?
Speaker 3:I'm not going to mince my words there's one thing you can control how you use your time in class with your learners. That is the one thing you can control and that's where you could really start looking at. Hey, I'm going to focus on high agency strategies I'm going to look for ways to really impart voice choice half pace place. I'm going to use technology in a purposeful way. I'm going to maximize that time so that I can support those students that need me the most as an administrator.
Speaker 3:In my opinion, is one thing that you can control whether or not you make the time to provide your staff timely, practical, chinnable feedback, because that's what teachers want. They want to know, they want that validation that hey, I'm doing this well, that positive reinforcement. It's just as important for teachers as it is for students. But they also want to know, in a non-evaluative way, what are the things based on evidence, that I can do to improve. How can I do what I'm already doing better. So in a utopian world we'd be able to change a lot of those things, but we really have to just focus on what we can control.
Speaker 1:You are right. You're definitely right. You spoke to something earlier which was about competencies, have more value placed on competencies. My dilemma again is that the exams are not testing competencies, testing knowledge, and I find that they're not changing to keep pace with skills development and competence-based learning the way they should. And again, I'm asking questions, because these are the questions that come to my mind. I don't necessarily think we can answer them all, but where do we begin to reshape that? Because until those final exams you mentioned teams and prills and those things. They're not. They're trying to say they can test skills, but they're not really. I mean, how do we reconcile with that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I've worked with two schools in particular here in the United States that have just been amazing with a competency-based approach, where they've also experienced amazing test scores, standardized test scores. One was Wells Elementary and that is the school that my daughter went to. That school scores 95% or higher Math, science, ela, grades three, four and five and what they use is they use their benchmark data to group, regroup, provide targeted instruction. They will spend some time preparing for the more formal standardized tests. But when you look at what's mostly happening, you're looking at choice boards, must-do, may-do tasks, playlists, rotational models. They are maximizing the time.
Speaker 3:How do you still do well on exams? You challenge your students to think. I mean, if that doesn't change. Looking at whether you call it web's depth of knowledge, bloom's, taxonomy, levels of thinking, you still challenge them to think. But again, how are we differentiating our tasks? How are we looking at the process of learning? How are we providing that feedback?
Speaker 3:And currently I'm working with Quest Junior High, which is a grade six through nine building. When people say you can't do it, well, listen, they have no homework, they have no grades. They got rid of points, they got rid of numbers, they got rid of homework. They unpack every standard into rubrics and it's a-. But think about learning targets going from emerging, developing, mastering to extending. Those students get multiple opportunities to practice before they have to prove their learning and their junior high in their respective state is scoring higher than almost every other junior high in that state. And when you walk in there you see and feel what a real world learning experience should look like. I mean, they got flexible seating, dry erase table, so it's happening.
Speaker 3:But again, we have to get past the fear. If we challenge our learners to think and we get them to apply their learning in relevant ways, and if we use data to maximize the time we have with our kids and support those that need it the most, the scores will follow suit. But we have to move past our comfort, because comfort is the enemy of progress. And we also have to face our fears. And, in the words of Zig Ziglar, we can forget everything and run, but our students, they need us to face everything and rise. Is it easy? No, nothing is easy. Teaching is not easy, leading is not easy, but when we start looking at the results through the eyes of our learners and we see how much satisfied we are and we see that they're moving from compliance to engagement, to empowerment. I mean that is all the affirmation that we need to really continue that progression forward.
Speaker 1:No, that's brilliant. I'd love to see that school in action. It sounds amazing. I mean our setting here in the Middle East. I think we're poised for some fantastic disruptive thinking in our classrooms because, yes, there are inspections, yes, there are policies and things that are still needing to be shaken up, but I think we have a little bit more flexibility, given that it's a majority private school base, especially here in the UAE, and so individual schools and school groups can innovate in a way that sets them apart, which would then make it easier for them to think disruptively.
Speaker 3:Which brings me on to that, and it's interesting you say that Because I am going to give a plug. I have worked with a school system in UAE GEMS and I've seen firsthand some amazing innovative work that they are doing with their students. So you're right, it is happening out there and we kind of want to keep moving forward and really begin to scale that change. And as we're talking, I kind of have to just backtrack one little bit, as we're talking about what our learners need and we're talking about transforming learning. Disruptive thinking here is kind of where we are now. What do we learn from the pandemic? What are we learning now from artificial intelligence? How much we do not know. Disruptive thinking is the ability of our students to replace conventional ideas with innovative solutions to authentic problems. And, as we've been talking, that's kind of the point I've been trying to make is how are we creating that disruptive thinking in our classrooms that is going to prepare our students not just for the present but for their future?
Speaker 1:Yes, now I get it. If a teacher is at zero with disruptive thinking, they haven't even started to kick against the grain. Where do they begin?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I really. You begin with where it's the easiest shift to make. And just looking at our instruction, instruction is what the teacher does, learning is what the student does. But we want to really begin with. Hey, are we scaffolding our questions, our tasks, our assessments? Start there.
Speaker 3:Number two are we bringing in at least a relevant context? Can students see? Why am I learning this? How will I use it outside of school? What tells me if I'm successful?
Speaker 3:And really looking at how we build in higher cognition and relevant application to what we do? When we instruct the hook. How do we begin our lessons? Are we hooking them in? That's not new. That goes back to the work of Madeline Hunter from the late 1960s. She called it the anticipatory set. How we review prior learning, how we check for understanding, how we close our lessons. Look at those aspects and ask ourselves how can we bump up that thinking? Also, how might we begin to impart personalization through student voice? What I love is I tell teachers and administrators pick one of those effective strategies, use technology so every student can respond, every student can use their voice, and that's where you can begin. Often, the most monumental changes are the smallest changes to our practice. We have this misconception that we have to just do everything new. No innovation could just be doing closure at the end of every lesson with a Google form and using that feedback to determine if you need to do a reteach the next day. The smallest changes are the most significant.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I love that idea. I think sometimes we do think it's a mountain to climb and we can't get even started, but sometimes, if we look at it as one step at a time, then we get there. When we think about preparing our students, I keep reflecting on what you talk about. It's not about preparing them for something, it's preparing them for anything, and we know that we really don't have a clue what's going to happen next, that we have to be making sure that our students are actually ready for God knows what's coming over the hill. I wanted to find out from you like I can't have you on the podcast without talking about the dreaded AI how we're handling AI now in our schools. I'm not quite sure it's being handled the right way. There's sometimes a lot of fear. There are others who are running out and embracing it to a fault, and then there are others who haven't even recognized that it is something that needs to be addressed. What do you think we should be doing around students and teachers and the classroom and AI? Lots of ands.
Speaker 3:Yeah, well, I think a lot of that comes down to the professional learning that we are engaging in. And here's the thing with AI it's just the next iteration of Siri and Alexa. Siri and Alexa and even Google could all answer the who, what, where, when type questions that are predominant on a lot of homework. You think about Wolfram Alpha and that could solve complex math problems. I mean, we kind of had that technology, but AI is a different animal because now it can answer the how type questions, the why type questions, and just because AI generates it, it's coming from information If I don't quote me on this, but I believe it's from 2021, the information that's populating.
Speaker 3:So it's not entirely accurate. But here again, if we're developing tasks and assessments that students can choose to go and use AI, that can kind of give us some insight that maybe what we're, our methodologies, aren't that relevant to our students and that's one of the challenges that they have, or we're not creating these performance tasks, these authentic applications of learning. But I think we fear what we don't know and what we don't understand. So a lot of that comes down to education and I'm like listen, there are every conference you go to, it's AI, this AI that.
Speaker 3:But, I think it's really getting home on a how teachers and administrators can use it effectively to. I mean, I look at AI as this I use it to save time. So to save time, so I can be more human. Where do I see benefits for AI for teachers developing lessons, developing success criteria, unpacking standards so that they can really focus more on not the planning piece but the facilitation of learning From a student perspective. We just have to really think about the questions we're asking, and I think a lot of it is.
Speaker 3:If we're giving our students, students will use AI to do homework and homework, in my opinion, has been meaningless. We give students homework, we don't really look at it. So maybe that's a outcome of AI. We stop giving homework and we focus on more authentic application in the classroom, where they can't use AI. So I think it just comes down to education. But again, it's being able to identify when is the right time to use it, and I think for me, I use AI to get feedback on my writing. I take writing from years ago and put it through AI to give it another spin. It's my ideas, I've already written it. So education, education, education, just like anything. When the internet came, we didn't know what to do with it and now we're at this cross with the AI and who knows what the future holds. But I think one of the major outcomes is it's going to get us to rethink our lesson design and how we assess and how we assess changes to. That is not necessarily a bad thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely isn't, and if it forces us to rethink that, I think it would have done us a good deed. Well, when we're winding down the podcast, I want you to talk a little bit about the book and the four parts of the book and why you chose to break the book down into four parts, just kind of tease, so that people can go and have a little bit more of a read.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the first part, rethinking normal. I really was inspired to write that component because the pandemic got us all dizzy. I mean, think about that. I mean, no one knew what to do, the world stopped. So rethinking normal we have to understand that, hey, we're going to have all these disruptive forces. Ai right now is getting us to rethink normal across so many different sectors, and that kind of leads into what are these enduring mindsets that we want our learners to be able to possess so that they'll be prepared.
Speaker 3:The next is how we rethink learning, and rethink in terms of not doing things totally new, but how are we challenging our learners to think? How are we getting them to apply their learning to solve real world, predictable, real world, unpredictable problems? How do we really find to our instructional techniques but really begin to set the stage for some pedagogical shifts that are going to help us maximize time? Rethinking learning is really about looking at how we personalize and, as I've defined that before, let me tell you what personalization is not. It's not about putting all learners on a device, having them use an adaptive tool at the same time. It's not all students doing the same thing the same way at the same time. Personalization is all learners getting what they need when and where they need it to learn. You can personalize with and without technology, but that's kind of things that I referenced before, those high agency strategies, voice, choice, path, pace, place.
Speaker 3:Looking at the pedagogical shifts, everything from rotational models, choice activities, choice boards, must do, may do, playlists, flipped classroom, virtual learning. But then looking at the learning design, how we design the space, does this space? Because, again, the space design should go hand in hand with personalization, flexible seating, blended pedagogies. And then, finally, I talked about Rethinking Our Mindset, and this comes back to how the lens with which we use to look at our practice, our education, ultimately is our biggest adversary and that's where it holds us back.
Speaker 3:And I really talk about these outlier practices, homework, grades. Maybe we have to look at how we tread lightly with those practices, but looking at more feedback and reflection in our classrooms. So, again, nothing is perfect, but the whole point of the book that I hope is that educators will kind of have their aha moment and immediately think about the small changes they could make that could have the most significant impact on their practice, but they begin to think long term in terms of you know cause. I share stories and examples from school systems that I've worked with that are getting amazing results. So I've captured those stories to try to motivate teachers and administrators. They can see that this is possible in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's quite a lot of insights in there. It's almost like case studies in different sections. So I would encourage my listeners to go out and get it. It's on Amazon. I got it on Amazon for like $20, so it's not expensive people. It's actually quite good for what it is and so, yeah, I would encourage you. Eric, thank you so much for being on the podcast with me today. It has been my pleasure.
Speaker 3:Oh, no, anna, was all mine and you know. Two final thoughts for your audience. You know everybody. We got to remember that every single learner has greatness hidden inside of them. It's the job of teachers and administrators that help them unleash and find that greatness. And you know, everything comes down to relationships. Without trust, there's no relationship. Without relationships, no real learning occurs. So think about how you build those relationships, how you focus on supporting the who are learners and then going from there. And there's no perfection. Education. Chase growth, not perfection. Become the best iteration of yourselves for your learners.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really really good place to end the podcast. It's been so good to have you on the Teach Middle East podcast, eric Schengler, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. Visit our website teachmedaleastcom and follow us on social media. The links are in the show notes.
