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Tyronne shares his journey from actor to educator, creating a leadership legacy focused on respect, creativity, and empowerment that transforms both student learning and staff development.
• Started career as an actor before finding his calling in education after a supply teaching job • Created a school culture centred on respect with simple practices like emphasising "please" and "thank you" • Developed ESCA pedagogy (Exploring, Sharing, Connecting, Affecting, Innovating) to promote self-directed learning • Balances top-down direction with bottom-up empowerment to maintain vision while honouring professional creativity • Distinguishes between temporary compliance-driven improvements and lasting cultural change • Uses staff voice mechanisms while analysing non-participation as an indicator of organisational health • Advocates for reverse mentoring, pairing new teachers with senior leaders for mutual benefit • Recommends maintaining family support networks, documenting positive moments, and continuously seeking growth • Suggests creating an ongoing impact list rather than waiting until CV updates to recognise achievements
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I'm doing great because I have the opportunity to speak to you today. Give me a sense of your leadership journey today. The theme today is leading forward leadership legacy. Just to set the scene on what brought you to leadership and where are you now in your own leadership.
Speaker 2:
I started my career as an actor and soon after being in the profession, I had a real passion for it. I loved performing. I went for a period where I hadn't worked for a few months, which is not unusual for an actor, but what that did is it gave me a need to find something that could keep me going in that absence, and what I found was a job in a school as a supply teacher. And everything changed that day because after the first day, students came to me and they said sir, that was a great lesson. You helped me learn about history in an interactive way. Were you coming back? And that's when I thought this is for me.
Speaker 1:
Was it that moment it was that moment Everything changed.
Speaker 2:
I then embarked on a teacher program to get qualified teacher status and then I left the acting profession behind me. I severed ties with my agent, which was much to everyone's surprise, and I just went for it. Really, I think I was very much motivated to just support students to make progress, to have great engaging lessons, and then that translated to great outcomes. It was set out to get for my class 99% grade A stars or A's.
Speaker 2:
That wasn't the mission, it was just to do a good job. And then, when that was realized, it was fantastic. And suddenly my head teacher started to say can we have other teachers come into your classroom? Can other people learn from you and watch? And that's what happened. And then that enabled me to move beyond drama and I oversaw initial teacher training and mentoring across an alliance of nine schools and that gave me a real thirst for leadership generally. And then, ever since then, my career has just moved forward with that kind of pursuit to do better by students. But now my focus is a lot on adults and leading through them, and I hope that my legacy where leadership is concerned is about the growth and empowerment of others and the importance of what can work well for students can work well for adults. Just as we have pedagogy at our forefront for students, the pedagogy behind how you develop adults is also crucial, particularly in the climate that we're in amazing that's.
Speaker 1:
I didn't. We didn't speak about your journey prior to being on camera, so I'm like this is interesting. So, speaking of that, taking stock of everything that you've said about your slightly alternative path to the sector and to school leadership I've got our conversation cards here. Which aspects of your school's culture would you most want to persist beyond your tenure?
Speaker 2:
I think one of them is the school culture around respect. When I first joined my school, I loved it Cotter School for Girls. It was amazing, but we recognised that the students weren't seeing the best of them when it comes to that value of respect, which is one of our values. Now I think as a school we are very much focused on respect. Everywhere you go we have signage that says we say please, we say thank you. It's a small thing, but I would love to see that aspect of the culture which I don't think I necessarily led on, but I think I contributed, working with the team, pointing out that it was something that we needed. I think the respect culture for students and for staff. I think it's about that culture of staff development and sort of continual drive for improvement, being a collaborative. That's less about leader says, teacher follows, and more about us moving along together.
Speaker 1:
So student agency a little bit of teacher agency, absolutely Kassay, it's a lot of empowerment. Would you say it's top-down, bottom-up empowerment, or both? Or strategically selected.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I think. Yeah, that's a good question. I think it's probably a bit of everything. I think there needs to be an element of top down, even though just to use that language goes against what I believe but there does need to be that direction where it's as a school, this is what we are working to, because many middle leaders or teachers require that direction, but someone to say that this is what we're working to, face once you've got those colleagues clear on the vision, you've got their buy-in, so they're aligned, but then it's like relinquishing that and it's okay. What does that look like in english? What does that look like in year seven?
Speaker 1:
what does that look?
Speaker 2:
like in history, and that is when it's okay. Step back just as you would in a classroom where you give that direct instruction and now it's over to you to have that first knowledge and next, or to decide how that outcome is realized and expressed, because that's what's kept me in education that ability to be creative.
Speaker 1:
If I didn't have that as an early career teacher, I don't know if I would still be here, so so interesting that often and I've seen this a lot those who have a creative spirit tend to inspire educators more than if they are very logical and very systematic. Because I think humans, the human spirit, by the very nature of it, has an affinity to creativity. We all are. We find wonder in art. We find wonder in watching a piece of drama. We get immersed into it and our imaginations arise, like reading a really fantastic book. We get sucked into this world. That only we really. It's our interpretation of it. It's very personal. I've always found and I'm just remarking on it out loud that leaders who manage to capture the imaginations hearts, minds, but imaginations too of people, small people, big people tend to have a better impact. So if you're creative, use your creative spirit at work as well as otherwise. So, speaking of actually actually, this leads me nicely into this question how do you ensure your legacy encompasses both academic excellence and character development?
Speaker 2:
I'm very proud of about it's going on 10 years now but there was educational reform and we were clear that we were moving away from A stars, a's and B's to 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I teach drama, so for drama, one of the implications was that drama teachers would no longer be able to direct students in readiness for devised theatre. Now that made me panic, because everything that had happened up until then was because I would be directing students. You should use this accent, let's use our toe and let's have a good Tuskegee and use some spiritualism here. So I was thinking how will I get my students to that same height if I'm not directing them?
Speaker 2:
I turned my problem into a master's and I did a master's in self-directed learning and I created a pedagogy called ESCA exploring, sharing, connecting, affecting and innovating and the idea is I planned lessons following that.
Speaker 2:
So the beginning of the lesson would be explorative and it would be sharing and connecting, because my aim was, if I can get students to learn in this way, I can support them to hit the criteria without me directing them. And I think that would be my legacy in terms of how I merged academics and character, because the idea is everyone in my classroom was an explorer. Everyone in my classroom was empowered to share. Everyone in my classroom was an explorer. Everyone in my classroom was empowered to share. Everyone in my classroom was encouraged to have a strong connection to the character and the emotions and the context. So to me it was about a personal development slash, academic success and that was what was most important to me and for my learners. And what I don't say enough is I still utilize that pedagogy when I'm working with staff, but I'm just not so explicit about that.
Speaker 1:
So you took me back to 2003, which is quite a long time ago, where I was in a classroom where I naively to a degree naively was like really trying to make these children passionate about fractions, passionate about it. We had food, we were cutting it up. I was on a teacher first program in East London and I had the kind of mentor teacher who is known for being quite authoritarians come to me and say did they meet the objectives? She was mentoring me. It's okay, that was her style, but did they meet the objective? Could they do it or not? And I was like no, I was making them love it. I was making them love fractions before I made them do it. And I think that's more important than just getting them to do question one, two, three, four, five and when they truly love it love why I love it or love why they love it they'll then be able to have the confidence to tackle any question, it doesn't matter which one.
Speaker 1:
And I saw this kind of weird look in her eye that was like, is she crazy or is she brilliant? I can't tell. She just went and then said, whatever, just make sure they're ready for the test. I can't tell. She just went and then said whatever, just make sure they're ready for the test. So it was very weird to be in a situation because I was treated like an extra pair of hands in that school. The outcomes were there, so she then left me alone Because the outcome was there. I was then allowed to do just whatever you're doing, just make sure that they're ready. So it was interesting to be in that circumstance with someone who is outcomes driven, high stakes etc. Doesn't understand the method in your madness, but then says, okay, if they don't get the results, you're going to do it my way right, but if you get the, results, then I'm going to back up and let you carry on.
Speaker 1:
That's so wonderful so it's interesting that you took me back to that moment, really, because you said that you had this pedagogy self-directed and what's what rings true with both stories is this concept of loving what they're doing absolutely, because I think when you're a school leader you do have to be aware of.
Speaker 2:
Thank you for sharing that, because that's actually inspired me further.
Speaker 2:
I'll come back to you okay, but when you're a school leader, you do have to look at account, you do have to look at accountabilities, you do have to look up off stage, you do have to look at what the exam board is looking for. But you see, sometimes when you do that, you identify things that could be improved even in those accountability systems. So, for example, they talk about strong curriculum implementation being that students know and remember more. But as we're talking about, yes, there is that, but to what extent is creating a love and a passion going to make the students want to know and remember?
Speaker 2:
exactly and that is something I don't think you can recite off, but it's great that you managed to overturn your temporary oppression actually I just saw it as well.
Speaker 1:
A little C.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I had a bit of a defiance with it, but I just thought if they love it and they understand it inside out, I don't need to worry about the outcome. Yeah, so I came with that kind of maybe slight naivety as a young teacher, but I think that's why it's important to embrace and respect new recruits, because there's always a new idea. Reverse mentoring is something that I very much advocate. There's sometimes where pairing an ECT with a strategic school leader and getting them to interact and talk oh, this is what I'm doing in my work, and they say this is what I'm doing in my work, and they're speaking as equals about their work. Now how about you try what you try? And they're both talking about their own roles, without needing to go too in depth about what each are doing, but inspiring each other to do better in their work.
Speaker 1:
And reverse mentoring you can look it up. It's quite. It's seen to have good outcomes, not just a nice to have, but also being. It opens doors to diverse perspectives and questioning and thoughts that you hadn't thought of at all. Yeah, so it's a good tip.
Speaker 1:
We're up to number three okay what distinguishes a temporary improvement from a lasting educational legacy?
Speaker 2:
wow, I think temporary improvement is usually something that comes to me is usually a byproduct of kind of an initiative that's we have to roll this out. Yeah, we need to have everyone smiling, and in every classroom there's a like a road learning initiative absolutely, and I think that you. It's usually not sustained because it's not sustainable or it's something that's been rolled out without getting people's hearts and minds to understand why they're doing it Like compliance orientated Absolutely.
Speaker 2:
That's something that tends to be temporary, but there's sort of long lasting change. I think usually comes about, yeah, when there's a culture that people can buy it. People understand why, but then there's a building of momentum.
Speaker 2:
I think that's a culture that people can buy it, people understand why, but then there's a building of momentum I think that's the thing that has been a big leadership lesson for me more recently that you can roll out an initiative and in the early stages you might not see that compliance. You might not go into every classroom and see that thing.
Speaker 2:
As time goes by, you suddenly see a colleague of yours and when they deliver their, they're using that theme as part of the presentation, subtle shape, and you're like, oh wow, the head of safeguarding is now using the approach, and then people pick up on that and I think that building of momentum is probably the thing that's more powerful and therefore long lasting, because it's something that's probably more profound, that can't just be picked up instantly.
Speaker 1:
it needs to grow yeah, or where imitation is the highest form of flattery, right? Wow, I didn't expect that sentence to come out of your certain people who have a maybe a viewpoint that's very rigid on certain things, and then, over time, three months of repeating, of bringing through documents, and then you see a shift in their perspective and then you hear them say things that they wouldn't have said before. It's very rewarding to see someone open their mind to new ideas that perhaps you thought uncrackable. So it is, there is fruition. So if you're in the middle of a venture, an initiative, an implementation, and you're not sure if the eggshell is going to crack through, all the ways that you're trying whether it's through communication or culture or from compliance or bringing in new protocols if you're consistent, to embed those into your school, you will see. You will see there's light at the end of the tunnel. It takes time. It takes time. Yeah, how do you last one? How do you incorporate diverse perspectives into strategic decision-making in your school?
Speaker 2:
So there's a couple of ways. One forum is staff voice. So I think it's really good to frequently go out and see what staff feel. And then sometimes that's where you get the diversity of opinion. A recent example is we led some training and we had some colleagues who were like amazing, that was fantastic, it was helpful. And then we had other colleagues who felt the complete opposite and when we read between the lines we realised there is a happy medium. Actually, both colleagues are not wrong. They both have what they both feel has merit. So I think going for staff voice can be a really powerful way.
Speaker 2:
I think just listening so far in the conference which has been great, but the importance of listening before leading is a theme.
Speaker 2:
That's something that I'm taking away from this. So I think, just listening to everyone's views but at the same time not allowing that to completely sway you and take you down another path, because to me that's where you can become reactive and you're not leading. So I think it is good to take on board these diverse perspectives, listen attentively but ultimately feeling empowered as a leader to sometimes say actually both parties, both sets of both paradigms, both views are warranted. We can incorporate all of this, or actually on this occasion. Whilst I recognise some people may feel this way, for the good of the students and the good of the school moving forward, we will need to proceed with this and what you can find is people have a healthy respect for that because, even if you haven't necessarily taken on exactly what they said their diverse opinion you have factored it into decision-making and you've shown them that what's happened has been an informed decision and therefore they're also empowered to have contributed to you arriving.
Speaker 1:
With staff voice it's a bit of a tricky one, because if the same voices are the ones who are actually filling in a staff voice and some choose to opt out, what happens is if you're not tracking how many voices are actually speaking up on a staff voice survey, if you have 100 members of staff and 45 of them are filling in the survey 55 aren't, you've only got a very loud, potentially loud set of voices who are actually reporting, and out of those, some of them might have an agenda, may or may not have an agenda for what they're writing, and out of those, there might be those who are have collaborated to form a particular opinion. Absolutely so. When we're analyzing staff voice data, I'm always curious as to who opted out and what that signals about our culture. So whenever I'm brought in as a consultant or as an advisor, the first thing I do with staff voice tip is what rate of response do you get? Because that says more about the culture than the actual feedback.
Speaker 1:
Because if people don't feel comfortable to say what they need from the work, the higher the percentage of people feeling they can voice it, they are empowered, whereas the lower the number of people voicing they've tried to voice before maybe, and nothing happens. So they're like I'm not even going to waste my time filling in the form because nothing happens anyway. And then they don't. So I would advise school leaders, look at the response rates and very subtly see if you can investigate in a very empathetic, forward thinking and supportive way why certain people there might be some voices clearly, why they didn't participate. Maybe they're already on their way out, they've got another job in september or they're disgruntled about a certain other thing and they're using the survey as a way to show strike action or something. But knowing how, what chunk of your staff are not voicing and why, is a really good way of rooting out root causes of key issues, critical, critical issues that maybe you're missing.
Speaker 2:
No, I think that's really well said. That's some more leadership learning for me as well, and that really informs you to make that decision about which way to proceed.
Speaker 1:
Well, maybe there's some sort of cross wires or miscommunication or misalignment between teams that we didn't see blind spot. So it helps to just create a trail, but, as I say, it's with the intent to help, not with the intent to find out the culprit. Or, if you go with that energy, they're just going to be shut down anyway. They won't be open to your. They'll see it as an interrogation. Yeah, interesting. Lastly, I'd like you to summarize your, what you mentioned, your legacy, your, the, the approach, your pedagogy that you brought into that. I'm going to ask you more about off camera, the self-directed learning, because what I didn't realize and this is a side point was that we probably could learn something about the concept of direction from acting, could learn something about the concept of direction from acting, the director and then the role, technical concepts of direction.
Speaker 1:
But I didn't even think of that until you said it at this moment, when we say self-directed learning, right, I see the whole technical expertise in direction that we maybe could be tapping into in pedagogy and I'm sure there's someone already out there doing that but there's a thesis out there on it already, but I want to further my knowledge of that.
Speaker 1:
So that's something I'm taking from this conversation. But three words, please, of what you would want to share with a leader out there aspiring leader, someone who's leading but not feeling like their efforts are connecting. Someone who maybe felt like I felt when I was told to get the results in fractions. Or someone who doesn't click with their leaders and managers. A message for them that enables them to see themselves as a leader today, tomorrow and moving forward.
Speaker 2:
That's a really big question. I think family is important. I think we can get all consumed and we can really just immerse ourselves in work and that can be great because it's passion for many people. But I think the importance of having that family network people that you can go to and get advice and seek comfort from I think that is something that is really important.
Speaker 2:
When you're having those days where you're feeling like, can I do this? Just making sure that you open up your support network. I think it's important to capture the good things, yeah, and be thankful for the good things. So you know, if you are having one of those days but you have an interaction with someone that's positive, capture that, whether that's a note on your phone, whether that is something on your diary, because in those moments where you do feel a little bit low, you can revisit those and remember that smiling face from that student in year seven, that positive interaction with that colleague in the staff room. And I think always look for opportunities to grow and keep in mind that doesn't have to be in the linear, conventional sense like next assistant head, then deputy.
Speaker 2:
That has a place, but so does other growth For me. It's coming here. For me it's stepping out of my comfort zone, out of the UK, finding out about a wonderful opportunity and a wonderful conference, having the inner belief that I'm going to just put in an application and we'll see. I'm going to just try and see if they'll accept me. And then they did, and here I am. So I really think that it's important to look for ways to grow Really. Hopefully hold you in good stead, but just keep going.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, well valued, amazing I actually have. I don't wait to update my CV to write down things that I've achieved, because actually sometimes I don't remember. Like we go through life and help people do things and do what's necessary, but for other people viewing that, they would actually see that as impactful and we anyone may feel that's just routine, I'm just doing it because I'm supposed to do, but that in itself is impact. So, where you mentioned writing it down, noting it down, journaling or keeping a note, these are the personal things that I feel like I've developed in. This is the professional impact I've had, even as a note to self, as you've said.
Speaker 1:
But don't wait till your CV needs updating to start writing. Make it overfill it with impact and then, when you are updating it, you can remove and GPT it if you want to deep seek it, whatever it is, and it will then summarize it, those key nugget points that across time, you might forget. So make an impact list, update it directly on your CV and then read it. Sometimes, just read it. Enjoy that. You are making an impact. Just be in the space of. I am having an impact and I don't need to feel lesser for that, I think, is important, but if you have the drive to impact the sector across time, you will absolutely, you will you will, and maybe it's a bump in the road today.
Speaker 1:
Tomorrow it will be a ski lift to the top of Everest. Thank you so much. I'm really. It's been like a journey through all different sectors. I've really enjoyed the conversation that we've had and I'm so glad you got on the plane and that you applied, because we wouldn't have been able to have this conversation.
Speaker 2:
Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Thank you lovely to spend some time.
