Teach Middle East Podcast
Welcome to the Teach Middle East Podcast, the ultimate audio hub where educators find inspiration, share innovative ideas, and grow together! Brought to you by Moftah Publishing—the minds behind the premier Teach Middle East Magazine—this podcast is your gateway to the latest research-based practices, cutting-edge classroom strategies, and the heartwarming stories of educators from the Middle East and around the globe.
As the only podcast that interviews school leaders from across the Middle East and beyond, we offer unparalleled insights into the challenges and successes that shape educational landscapes in diverse settings. Join us as we dive deep into the fascinating world of education, where every episode promises a treasure trove of insights designed to connect, develop, and empower the brilliant minds shaping our future. Whether you’re seeking fresh perspectives, practical tips, or a dose of inspiration, the Teach Middle East Podcast is your must-listen resource. Tune in and transform the way you teach!
Teach Middle East Podcast
What Does It Take to Rise in Educational Leadership? With Nicki Williams
What does it take to rise from teaching assistant to Director of Education? In this candid conversation, Nikki Williams shares her remarkable journey through international education to her current role leading Taleem's educational vision across multiple schools and curricula.
Born into a nomadic life across Southeast Asia and the Middle East due to her father's career in oil and gas, Williams confesses she was never a model student. "Frankly, I couldn't have imagined any profession less likely to be on my CV than education," she reveals with refreshing honesty. Yet this background proved valuable, helping her connect with struggling students when she eventually found her calling in the classroom.
Williams offers practical advice for educators aspiring to leadership positions: show initiative, demonstrate passion, and contribute to the bigger picture. "A lot of times it can be driven by money, and that really can't be your motivator in education," she cautions. Instead, she looks for teachers who proactively share knowledge and take on responsibilities beyond their job description.
The conversation explores the unique challenges women face in educational leadership, with Williams noting how self-criticism and imposter syndrome can hold talented educators back. "You've got to have the courage to step up and put yourself forward and be uncomfortable sometimes in that role," she advises, while celebrating the increasing representation of women in senior positions.
As both a mother and leader, Williams speaks candidly about the emotional reality of having her three children leave home, while reflecting on the privileges of raising a family in the UAE. Her insights on maintaining wellbeing through scheduled self-care and exercise resonate with any busy professional juggling multiple responsibilities.
Perhaps most thought-provoking are Williams' reflections on education's future. She identifies the critical balance between embracing AI and technology while ensuring students develop the soft skills that machines cannot replicate. "Focusing entirely on rote learning and getting exams right is not going to be setting our students up for success," she warns, challenging educators to rethink how we prepare young people for a rapidly evolving world.
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SPEAKER_01:Hey everyone, Lisa Grace here, welcoming you back to the Teach Middle East podcast. Today I am with Nikki Williams, Director of Education for Taleem. She is the hardest woman to catch. This is now season six. I have been inviting Nikki since season four. Welcome to the podcast, Nikki.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, and happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation. Excited for this.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. Now, I think I remember you all the way back at Lewa, but I don't know anything prior to that. So just fill me in on your journey in education up to this point. Give me the skinny CV version.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. Well, a lot of times when I'm speaking, people are often trying to work out where's that accent from, where is she grown up? And I've actually been in international schools all of my life, which is why I have this sort of muddled accent that can't be placed. My father was in oil and gas, so I grew up all over Southeast Asia and the Middle East, which is why I'm probably very comfortable being a bit nomadic and traveling around the world. So prior to being in the UAE, I was in Singapore teaching and I was there for many, many years. I actually went to school there, went back to the UK, went back to Singapore, and ended up getting a teaching assistant job through a connection and then working my way up through all the ranks. And I have to tell you, when I was in school, no one would ever think that I would go into education because I wasn't a great student. I wasn't a big fan of school. And frankly, I couldn't have imagined any other profession less likely to be on my CV than education. So it's really funny that I'm actually sitting here. But it's one of those things that, you know, when I did actually become a teacher, you went, you know, when you spot those children who maybe are struggling or have, you know, some challenges in their background and in their life, that it's easier to connect with them. And I think it's one of the things that actually made me a better teacher when I was in the classroom. So yeah, worked my way up through the ranks. You know, I think I've had every position of leadership within a school and yeah, and seem to just keep going, I guess. I'm a very passionate leader, I'm a very passionate educator. So I think that's really what the driving force is.
SPEAKER_01:Amazing. So anyone out there listening who is now a teaching assistant, just know it's possible to go from teaching assistant to teacher to middle leader to senior leader and now director.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. Absolutely. And I say that when I speak to staff because I think it's important that they also realize that I didn't just fall into this position. I've worked my way up through the ranks. And actually, if you are someone who stands out as a teaching assistant, you know, you are putting yourself out there, you're supporting the school goals, and you're really passionate about your role, that you will be seen, you will be noticed, and that you can make those progressions and career progression within the school.
SPEAKER_01:That is so good to hear because sometimes people do feel a little bit discouraged that maybe they're going to be stuck at a particular role. Give me, maybe give my listeners a couple of things they can do if they're now looking. Maybe they're not a teaching assistant, yeah? But they're a teacher looking to go up into leadership. What are some tips that you can give them to help them to rise?
SPEAKER_02:I think you want to stand out as someone that is passionate and that you are someone who wants to step into a bigger role. A lot of times it can be driven by money, and that really can't be your motivator, I feel, in education. It's got to be about the bigger picture. So the people that have stood out to me when I've been a principal in a school is people who come forward and say, listen, I just went on this great course. It was amazing. I really think the team could benefit from it. Can I stand up? Can I share this learning that I've just got? You know, it's going to be beneficial to the students and that they are contributing to the bigger picture within the school environment. You know, so you are someone who takes the initiative, you're someone who's showing passion towards the students, you're stepping above and beyond to demonstrate what you're bringing to the school and what you're bringing if you were to step into leadership roles. But I do think there are schools or settings sometimes that don't invite the internal promotion opportunities, which can be quite frustrating to staff that are in schools. Sometimes that can just be because people don't leave. So there's no spaces for growth into those positions. But I think then we've also got to be able to say to staff, listen, you know, if you've had a conversation and I know that's something that you want to do and take a next step that if there aren't opportunities within the school, that I'm going to be the leader who supports you, you know, getting a promotion, even if it means you're going to another school in another setting to be able to meet your career aspirations.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Talium is a big company and getting bigger. And so there should be opportunities within the group. How do you guys, as the director of education, how do you guys spot that talent and help the people to move into promoted roles?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, I mean, it would be very difficult for me to know that at every school level. So it is conversations that we have with principals about the fact that we have a key responsibility here. And ideally, we want to create a setup where, you know, if we have a leader at whichever level step out, you know, for another opportunity, return home or whatever it is, that we have then another layer who have the opportunity to step up. So although, you know, within policy we always advertise internally, externally, it's important that we have staff that have the opportunity to step into those roles. And if they're the best person, and sometimes they might not be the person that has the required experience, but they've got the institutional knowledge. They also have the passion, the drive, and the want to be better and to, you know, put the work in and put the energy into learning for the new role. And I think those are times where we do have to make sure that we're taking an internal candidate to give them the chance versus someone who maybe has a very impressive CV, but doesn't know all of the ins and outs of living in this context, but also within the school itself and their processes and so on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I think local knowledge is super important, especially in this region, because you could come in here with all the accolades, all the qualifications, and bomb because you just have no idea how to navigate this context. But in terms of your role, give me two high points, two things you enjoy immensely about the job you're doing right now, and two things you're like, ugh, this is just not fun.
SPEAKER_02:Um, I would say, well, we'll start with the positives. Like I love the opportunity to work with different curricula, different schools, different leaders. I think that it stretches me as a person because, you know, working with one individual is going to be very different from another individual. I have to, you know, increase my ability to read people, my relational intelligence, my emotional intelligence. You know, I know that some people need, you know, more positivity and someone more direct feedback. And so it's good learning for me. And I think I like to stay on top of that. But I also get to be involved in what's going on in the classroom, you know, as part of our processes, our quality assurance, I am involved in all of the internal reviews. And, you know, when I go into our schools, and I'm not just saying this because I'm the director of education, but when I see what's happening in the classroom and I see the learning, the teaching, you know, the resourcing and beautiful buildings, I just am filled with absolute pride for being in the position that I'm in and what a privilege it is, and being able to support the principals with progressing and supporting the organization with progressing, and we're growing pretty rapidly, as I'm sure you know, and and a lot of people know, it's staying on top of that and making sure that we've got processes in place that make that growth sustainable and that we're not, you know, dropping any balls anywhere. And we're very much collaborators, I think, within the group. We do a lot of things together in leadership. You know, nothing's done to you, it's with you. You know, there's obviously some complexities to us being a public company, but you know, policies and processes, those sort of things, right? So I did my positives. Here's the challenge. So the challenges are probably, you know, the fact that we're a public company and therefore there are a lot of auditing requirements. There's a lot of process policy requirements where you have to very much adhere to that. It helps that I'm a policy person. So, you know, for me, uh, that's less of a challenge, but it's something that we have to hold schools accountable to as well. And I think, you know, I don't know how many policies I've read, but that is definitely not my favorite part of the job. So that's probably one of the bigger challenges. And then on the other side, I think it's also, you know, I would love to spend all of my time living and breathing, being in the schools, but you do get caught up with a lot of meetings and, you know, being involved with the government organizations and supporting the strategic goals and all of that sort of thing. So sometimes, you know, occasionally when I go read a story in a school, I'm like, oh, remember when I used to do this for a living? This was amazing. And the children, the cagey kids are all trying to jump on you and drawing pictures of you. And so I think I missed that bit a little bit because the further you get up the chain, you tend to get further away from children in some ways.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, no, those are good ones. I I saw the earnings for Tallim, and I was like, damn, maybe I should have bought shares. I saw Alan on one of the programs talking about the profits. I was like, damn, I think I missed, I think I missed an opportunity there. But let's segue into something. By the time this comes out, I think we would have already held the women in education leadership forum because this is now September and we're recording and we normally record and hold episodes to release. So I think it might be gone by then. But do you think women in leadership need anything different than men in leadership, especially as it relates to rising into leadership?
SPEAKER_02:Do they need anything different? I wouldn't say so. I think that we are probably more self-critical in many ways. And because of that, women can hold themselves back from that progression. And I think you've got to have the courage to step up and put yourself forward and be uncomfortable sometimes in that role. But we also have to be able to receive feedback. And I don't think this is just for women, but I know having worked with many women and for myself, you know, that we can take feedback so to heart when in actual fact we're human, we will mess up all the time. And getting feedback makes us better. So it isn't something that we need to be taking so personally, but thinking about a bigger picture and appreciating the fact that people feel that they trust us enough to be open and honest with us and it helps us grow in the long run. I think we've got to be careful of the way in which imposter syndrome can sometimes manifest, you know, when we're work with women who maybe feel a lack of confidence in some ways, that sometimes it can come across in your leadership style in a less positive way. So I think you've got to be able to, like I said, get that balance right where you are holding the thought, you are assertive, you are doing all of the things that you're required to do in leadership, but you're also saying, yes, maybe, you know, this isn't the best idea. And that idea that you're putting forward is something that I need to think about, I need to consider. So I think women need to be less critical of themselves, and I think they need to feel the opportunities are there and that they should step into them with a level of confidence. We've got a lot of female leaders in our organization. And I remember when I first became a principal in Abu Dhabi, I remember walking into there used to be before COVID, those big principles meetings that used to be held. And I would say it was like 80% of the people in those rooms were men and 20% women. And I think we are seeing a shift now in more women coming into leadership and education. And I think that's amazing and something to be proud of. There's a lot of really hardworking, dedicated women who care about children out there who should be giving themselves the chance to step up and step forward and push themselves out of their comfort zone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree with you. You mentioned a key word there, courage. Not just professionally, but even personally. What does courage mean to you? And give me an example of when you had to show real courage.
SPEAKER_02:Sure. I mean, I think in any opportunity that you're given where you're pushed out of your comfort zone, it takes a level of courage to take on that opportunity, apply for that job. You know, so I think I have definitely within my career applied for jobs where I think, am I meeting all of the criteria for this role? Am I going to be able to do this? I'm second guessing myself. But unless you give it a go, unless you're applying and trying and saying, listen, I feel like being open and honest in an interview, and I say this to leaders all the time, we can be vulnerable. Like you, we don't have to stand up there and be the person who knows everything. So, you know, have the courage to be vulnerable, which I think I do with my team. You know, I don't necessarily know everything about everything. That's why everyone here is sitting around the table because I need your expertise as well to challenge me, to tell me how you feel we could be doing it better. So I think applying for jobs that are large scale takes a lot of risk, takes a lot of courage. And I've done that quite a few times in my career. But I also feel like I'm a learner. And I think you have to be a learner if you step into the role and pretend you know everything about everything. You're never really going to walk away with the growth that you're going to get from your team if you have the vulnerability and the openness to gain their trust, to say that we're growing and we're learning together. And, you know, because we want to be better, that feedback's going to collectively be a part of that process.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I do agree with you. In your day-to-day dealings with staff, I don't know how much of the teaching profession you see in the Tallinn group, but I'm sure you see a lot with leaders. What is the one or maybe two things that you think leaders nowadays need to be mindful of, especially when they're leading younger generations? So like Gen Z, because the teachers are younger now and they are a different breed, I think. I'm not going to say you could me. They're a different breed to me. What do leaders now need to be mindful of when leading this generation of teachers?
SPEAKER_02:And I think because in our portfolio we have quite diverse leadership anyway, we've got people of different generations, if you like, within the group. So I think that keeps us with our heads on the ground, knowing what's going on within the schools. And I think that as a group, working with our human resource department, working with recruitment agents, all of that, we have an idea of the demographic coming into the country. How are we going to onboard people where we are making them feel comfortable? Because it's not just about this generation, it's about this context, you know, and there is a level of comfortability that you want to create, but also be open and honest about expectations because I think people aren't afraid to speak up and people aren't afraid to share their opinions. And so when we haven't said, listen, this is going to be the expectation of a teacher working in this school, you know, we want to be on this journey together. However, you know, this is the A's and B's are what our expectations are. And no one is going to then be surprised by something being brought to the table that they weren't prepared for. So I think having that open communication, your induction process, because you're going to get to know your team a lot more. You're going to know there's a few people here who are very needy, they're very anxious. I can tell that that's, you know, I think a lot of mental health issues in terms of anxiety and depression and those things are coming about more frequently. And when we're talking about international staff, we have to really take care of those people because you won't know what's happening behind closed doors. You won't know how people are going to respond when they land on the ground. You know, coming to a new context, being away from family, the initial sunshine is going to wear off. And then you're going to be thinking, you know, I can't just go and pop into my mom's house. And so I think as leaders, we've got to be very mindful of reading our staff, but also creating opportunities for them to share in a safe setting where, you know, many of our schools will have well-being committees, you know, they'll have channels in which they can reach out to people, mentors, buddies. We also, as part of our medical insurance provider, we have online therapy and things like that. So sharing of this information so people know that there are ways that they can share their thoughts and feelings and feel more comfortable in the setting. But I think also managing the expectations of staff coming to the country to say, listen, there will be a bumpy road. And those initial few months take you a while to settle down. But when you survive those first few months of bureaucracy and challenges, you know, a lot of people end up staying here for a long time. And I'll often share what's my own experience, you know, moving to the UAE from Singapore, where Singapore, you know, it's very structured, very systematic. And coming into the UAE 17 years ago, the processes for visas and Wi-Fi and getting a bank account and doing all that stuff took so long. And I was getting to a point where I was like, I just don't know if I can keep doing this, you know. And then once you ride through that wave and you get used to, you know, being away from the friends and the family that you're used to and you create new friendship groups and also, you know, create opportunities for a staff to create friendship groups that helps with that smooth onboarding process. And, you know, people don't leave. You know, they're here for years and years. I never thought I'd be here for 17 years, and yet here I am.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know. 15 years for me. And I keep wondering where did the time go? I literally can't think. What did I do in all those 15 years? Anyway, I must have done something. I must have done something. It couldn't have just blown by. So let's change gears a bit. So Nikki, the director of education, but Nikki is also a mom. Tell me about that side of you.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, you're gonna make me cry or something. I just literally have had my daughter leave hope. So she's my youngest, and so now all of my three children are out of the nest. And yeah, it took me like a week of crying to get over the fact that my daughter's not in her bedroom anymore. So yeah, no, I think you know, it's been 17 years. My children have been here and growing up with me. So they're all now either out of uni, in uni, or in college. So it's been amazing being a mom in the UAE. I think we're so privileged, and people can easily forget that. You know, the safe environment, the fact that students grow up being exposed to some of the things they'd be exposed to in, you know, more Western countries. And, you know, with that, they get to retain their childhood for longer, and you get to see them play with Lego till they're 14. And, you know, it those kind of things are things that I feel has been such a privilege growing up in the UAE and being here. So, yeah, as a m, I try to balance life and work, and it is very, very difficult. But it has helped that, you know, when my job sort of ramped up, my children were a bit older and you know, more independent and able to handle their own homework and all that sort of thing that comes with their own school responsibilities.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, where's your daughter off to?
SPEAKER_02:She's going to college with her cousin, so she's in the north of England.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, wow. And you're here, that's that's tough. I have two boys and they're now in year nine, and I keep having like tiny panic attacks because I'm like, they're both gonna leave for uni in a few years at the same time. And I'm very hands-on as a mom, and I'm like, what am I gonna do with myself? I need to make a plan. I keep saying that because they're gonna be in year 10 next year, and then off they go. And I'm like, what's my plan? I need a plan or something.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. It's so true. And I think, I think I wasn't thinking like you're thinking, I wasn't preparing myself for this. It came too much too soon. And I used to say to people, I'm like, I'm okay, you know, I'm so busy and it's fine, and you know, she's gonna be great, she's super independent. And then as soon as she was out of the house, I was like, This is this is not working for me. So yeah, but it's it you will inevitably feel some sense of loss, but at the same time, it's such a lovely step for them in their own journey and their own independence. And I'm enjoying watching her get a lot from this experience.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. What does well-being mean to you? How do you take care of yourself? Because you have a busy job. I told people, I've been trying to get Nikki on the podcast since how many two years ago. So you have to now be able to balance work and life and taking care of you. How do you do that?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, I think women, moms, you know, we prioritize everybody before ourselves a lot of the time. And I really think that managing my own anxiety and stress and all the things that come with the pressures of the role comes with finding time for me, you know, when I'm gonna go and have a massage or get my hair done, or, you know, have a girl's night, or, you know, step away and have a little holiday with my sister. You know, those kind of things are things that help keep you level. And when you are prioritizing everyone else, like many mothers do, you do have to remind yourself, and even like for me, I'll schedule it because otherwise something's gonna come up, it's a busy time, and oh no, I don't need to do that today. You know, I think exercise is key, you know, if you're not out there walking, being active, you know, it is gonna have an impact on your mental health. And there's so much research behind, you know, how exercise can support alleviating anxiety and stress that I think people need to prioritize exercise. And it's difficult in the UAE a little bit because you don't have the same opportunities for, you know, if you're in Europe and you're walking about and you go here and you take the train, then you walk to the bus station, and you walk to work. And, you know, a lot of those opportunities aren't necessarily here just because of the expansive nature of the country that we're always driving somewhere. It's also very hot in the summer, so you don't always have the opportunity between sort of May and September for that. So you've got to find other opportunities to get out there and get active, which is gonna benefit anyone.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, what are you doing? Are you walking? Are you yoguring? Are you Pilates? What are you doing?
SPEAKER_02:Pilates, yes. I go to the gym, I have a treadmill in my living room, you know. So making sure that I'm doing that. And then as soon as the weather cools down, I am out and I am walking. And, you know, if it's going out for dinner, I will walk an hour and a half to the dinner and I will have dinner and I will walk back, you know. So I like doing things like that. I'm a little bit crazy about getting my steps in.
SPEAKER_01:So no, that's great though, because yeah, in the UA, you don't see anybody walking for an hour and a half. I don't even know where you walk. There aren't even pathways. How are you doing that?
SPEAKER_02:There are a lot more now. I mean, I live in Abu Dhabi. I think Dubai in many ways has that in a lot of the residential areas, but Abu Dhabi's definitely putting a lot of effort into, you know, cycle paths and walkways and things like that, especially in my area. I feel very privileged. So, you know, a lot of them lead to this center of town where, you know, there are other hotels and restaurants and things.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's good. We're winding down the podcast. I want to ask you like these big questions to end out. Where we are now in education, Nikki, what are the big issues that you see that we within the community, whether you're a school leader, director, principal, vice principal, that you need to be grappling with at this time?
SPEAKER_02:I think that it's not really an issue. It's one of those things that's kind of back and forth. And it has it's very cyclical, is like technology and AI and all of that. And then we've got you know pressures from families that don't want the technology, and then we've got pressures from forward thinking initiatives on bringing AI in and doing all of these things. So, how do we create that balance within education? I think sometimes our exam systems in you know, some of our curricula don't lend itself to developing the skills that our students are gonna need in the future. So, what are we doing as schools to help develop those skills? You know, if you have very exam-based, like GCSDs, for example, what are we doing for students to help develop them to be ready for what university is going to be like when they get there? You know, where soft skills are going to be really important in careers in the future. What are we doing about that? Because focusing entirely on rote learning and getting exams right and things which could feel a little bit like that is not going to be setting our students up for success later on in the future. So, how do we build the balance where we've got the elements of technology that are going to be super important and the students need to be ahead of that game, but also make sure that they are developing the skills that they need to collaborate to ensure that they're able to show and understand the learning that they're there getting and that we're not driving everything through AI and then not actually able to articulate what or how we would apply these skills that we're learning and this content that we're learning to actual events. So I think changing the way in which we assess, the way in which we deliver curriculum, the way in which we prepare students, it's just an ever-evolving conversation that we've got to keep having with each other, you know, having as school leaders, but having as teachers, because AI is so great in so many ways, and technology is fantastic in the ways in which it can, you know, support learning and can make things accessible for children that need it. But also we need a level of balance within that. And getting that right, I think, is tricky for all schools, and we're all working through that together at the moment.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I agree with you. It's really that balance. I've been doing a lot of reading around tech and AI and the implications, and some of it is doom and gloom, and some of it is high optimism, and some of it is balance. And I'm just trying to find my space in all of that and really thinking, okay, what are we actually needing to do at this time?
SPEAKER_02:I know, and I remember like there was a time where everyone was saying, like, you go and do your degree, and it should be technology based because you know, all of the careers for the future are gonna be, and now we've got people being made redundant in digital media and and you know, creation and design through digital media. It's all of that can be done in a split second in AI. So now what are we doing to say actually trades are really important, and that's gonna be something that we're gonna need to build on. And how are students thinking about that? You know, what are the things that you're gonna need in the future where you still have that balance of information, knowledge, and experience with AI, but that you're utilizing it ethically and that it's being used to support a bigger picture?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I do agree with you. Wow, that's a good place to end the pod. Thank you, Nikki.
SPEAKER_02:No problem. It's been wonderful. Thanks for having me, and I'm so sorry that it's been so long. It's okay.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you so much.
