How To Build Resilient Teams Under Pressure With Neal Oates

We talk with Neal Oates, Principal of Star International School in Mirdif, Dubai, about leading with kindness while still holding the line on standards. 

We explore how resilient school teams are built long before a crisis, and why human connection matters more than any tool. 

• Neal’s route into education from industry and why fulfilment matters 
• Growing into leadership in the UAE through visibility, impact and persistence 
• Kindness as a non-negotiable leadership value 
• Trust as the foundation for high-performing teams 
• Accountability with kindness and why clear expectations reduce conflict 
• Staff resilience during uncertainty and what support actually helps 
• Cohesion in leadership teams and aligning around shared direction 
• Returning to school after disruption with wellbeing and emotional regulation 
• Pushback on overhyped edtech and concerns about data and motives 
• Protecting face-to-face learning and community as the core of schooling 
Visit our website, teachmiddleeast.com, and follow us on social media. The links are in the show notes.

Transcript

Welcome And Why Timing Matters

SPEAKER_01 0:04

You are listening to the Teach Middle East Podcast, connecting, developing, and empowering educators.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

Hey everyone, welcome to the Teach Middle East Podcast with me, Lisa Grace, and today I have Neil Oates. Neil is the principal at Star International School in Murdiff in Dubai. Hi Neil, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 0:29

Hello, do you well? How are you?

SPEAKER_02 0:31

I'm fine. We are recording this on April 2nd. I know I don't normally say when we record, but I'm saying we're recording this on April 2nd just to show people that life is going on, that things are happening, and that we're going to be talking today with Neil about number one, his journey. But number two, we're going to look at something even more important. And that is how we build resilient teams. How do school leaders build resilient teams? And we'll talk around other things as well. How is life at Star, Neil? What's going on there?

SPEAKER_00 1:08

Yeah, I mean, it's it is it is it is different. I think, I think we're obviously facing the same challenges as anyone else in the region. Um, but again, you know, teachers, as I always say, they're incredible, right? You're the most awesome profession in the world. And they just keep going on beyond. They're keeping the learning going. Um, school community being fantastic online as well. Such really supportive parents and students. Um, and yeah, just couldn't be proud of how how we're handling things. Do I want it to end tomorrow? Yes, please. I want to go back to school. I want to see the kids. Um, but yeah, I think I think as a school community, we're doing really, really well. So thank you for asking.

From IT Cold Calls To Teaching

SPEAKER_02 1:52

I'm glad to hear that. I think it's it's not lost on anyone that schools are a lot more than just teaching and learning. Um, when people say, Oh, you can do that online, I'm like, you can, but you can't, because it's the moments between the moments that makes school special. Tell me, how did you get into education? Give me give me some background.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Yeah, good question. I mean, to be honest with you, um, Lenisa, I I never I never set out to be a teacher. Um, my sort of path was I was at university, um, decided to go into into industry, and I was doing of all things uh IT uh cold calling, selling business to business, and it was just soul destroyed. Not that I have any criticism on anyone who does that kind of thing, there's people who are amazing at that. I just realized I wasn't a very good salesperson because I was too nice. Um, and in a roundabout way, uh the industry agreed. So um the recession happened uh back in the day. Um, and my my big sister, uh, she's a she's a head teacher in the UK. Um, she'd always been around me, sort of teaching, and so it was always something that was around me. Um, and I just thought, you know what? But maybe maybe there's something a bit more fulfilling that I could be doing in my life, and just applied for the PGCE. Um, I was gonna go primary, ended up doing business mainly because of the dates, um, which is an interesting one. Like Pasta Village, right? I nearly become a primary teacher, but it's only because you know the business economics was available at the time. Met my wife on the PGCE, uh, which was nice. So, you know, that that went well. Well done at um uh Nottingham Trent University, and the rest is history, really. Just just just loved it, absolutely loved it. Um, and then the opportunity for Dubai and the rest is history, I guess.

Finding Leadership Opportunities In The UAE

SPEAKER_02 3:45

Yeah, and then because when I met you first, you weren't ahead. So talk to me about that journey into headship. So you came out here, give me, because I think a lot of people don't understand that there is opportunity for growth in this region, that you don't have to already be coming out as a head teacher, that you can find a path to headship here. So tell me, how did your path form in front of you?

SPEAKER_00 4:11

Yeah, I mean a lot. I mean, the UAE is the land of opportunity. I mean, I always say to buy is like Disneyland for education, that's what I always say to people because there's just so much going on, so many opportunities. I I came out of here as a as initially as a business studies teacher. I'd only had two years' experience in the UK. I was really fortunate to get offered um a head of house position, um, which was it was an unpaid MLT role um that wasn't really MLT, and that's the that's the truth. That's just being nice. Um, and and what was interesting is I thought it was the best thing ever because I had this opportunity. But it turns out uh I think the school at the time was struggling to find the game to do the role because it's quite uh it's it's one of those sort of um uh intense sort of positions that you do, you you're sort of organizing uh house events and things like that. I just absolutely loved the responsibility, and it was like giving you that opportunity to sort of shine. So if I'm honest, it kind of started there where I was given an opportunity, I went with it, it wasn't paid, um, and it sort of got me the bug. Um, and I guess that journey to leadership was was essentially just throwing myself into everything, you know, getting involved in in teach meets, um, all the conferences which were I came across you. I was always speaking, like I think people were sick of sick of hearing hearing from me and seeing me at one stage because you know, always there. And because I had a sort of technology uh background, it really helped me stand out in terms of what I was doing. So I got an opportunity. I was very early on asked to apply for a senior role that I was definitely not qualified for. And I remember the principal at the time, very kindly, amazing guy, uh, Mark Ford, if you if you're out there, uh, and he just explained, look, you're not you're not there yet. I understand where you are, and I understand where you want to be, but this is what you need to sort of be considering. And it's just, I think it was quite fortunate early on to get really great leaders around me, really great principals and people around me, sort of giving me that guidance. But it's because you're pushing yourself and you're having that. So ended up doing uh head of IT uh primary role of all things, so completely switched career. So I was teaching year one IT and year 13 business. That was a strange transition. And then um head of IT, then transitioned to a head of technology integration, which was an SLT role, a HOTTI, as it was otherwise known. Um, and yeah, that that that then led to um being part of a school community that were good, very good, outstanding. That was great. Um, and then just sort of looking out for the next uh next opportunity. And that that transition to principal to the headship sort of thing, it really came from I I typecast myself a little bit and sort of become the the tech guy, and and I was trying to break away from that. So I managed to get an opportunity over at Star. Uh I knew the principal at the time, Jill Roberts, an incredible human being. Um, and yeah, two years in or a year in, we were sort of going through COVID, and she'd said, Look, I'm I'm looking to retire. Do you want to take it on? And took on the opportunity, possibly a bit sooner in my career than uh that expected. So I had to learn a lot in that time. But the school community has been really good to me. Um, and it's really helped support me. So yeah, there's no way I'd have had the sequence of opportunities that I'd had if I'd have stayed in the UK. Being in the UAE and that sort of fast-paced environment, I always say if you're going to work hard and you're going to put yourself out there, you're going to find the opportunities out here for sure.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

So, because you you nearly answered my next question with your last statement, because people are looking at where their careers can go. And some people are thinking there isn't opportunity. What would you advise them to do to be able to spot opportunity in the sector?

SPEAKER_00 7:56

It's interesting, it's spot an opportunity. I think, I think that there's two ways, isn't it? There's spot an opportunity, but opportunity will find you is what I'd say. If you're putting yourself out there and you're putting your head above the parapet and you're putting your hands up, hand up in to leaders in your current school, and you're saying, look, I really want to have an opportunity to work on a project, or I want to go off to this conference and speak about something I'm doing in my classroom. Also, just being an absolutely fantastic teacher in the classroom and demonstrating your pedagogy, that does get noticed. And the thing about the UAE in terms of intellectual schools, because there's that natural transience in terms of people, you know, there's a bit of turnovers. That year, it means that it's not like someone's staying there for 50 years, right? Yeah. So you're going to get that opportunity for those militia leadership positions as they come. So spotted opportunity, I think it's just just working on yourself, working on your your CV, working on those, you know, that impact that you can have in the in the setting you're in, so that when you have that conversation, you get the opportunity to interview for that next step. You've got something to talk about. It's it's that's what it is. And that's what people are looking for in in leadership, is people who go beyond who are who are looking to have impact. Um, I know what they're talking about. So you've got to throw yourself into things. Opportunity will either find you, as it's all notice you, or you're gonna find it through through through um persistence, as as as I think I found it um back in the day.

Kindness First And Trust As Policy

SPEAKER_02 9:26

Yeah, no, I agree with you. And so now that you're in the role and you have to come up with your own leadership philosophy. Like you can't just take on Jill's and run with it. No, you've got to become Neil the leader. What is your philosophy, Neil, as it relates to leadership?

SPEAKER_00 9:49

Um, I think I think that there's a couple of things that sort of things that come out in terms of my philosophy around leadership. I've always been sort of believes in kindness, and I don't believe that to be successful you you have to be on kind. And if I'm honest, I've experienced leadership. Um, not in my own schools, I've I've always had fantastic schools, but I've I've witnessed and experienced leadership that isn't kind. And I I think there's another path. And I I know that that's um it's something that you know, once upon a time you you'd be frowned upon for sort of saying that kindness is really important as a leader because you're meant to be this macho person who comes in and and sorts things out, right? And stood at the at the front of the school and and telling everyone what to do. But for me, you know, the philosophy is around kindness because I've seen the the emotion that comes within, you know, it's like you'll people never forget the way you make you feel, right? And if you can make people feel a sense of community, feel loved, feel that people care about you. My experience has always been I've always worked so much harder for those individuals. I've always tried to push myself as a result of that. And ultimately, teaching as a profession, it's about it's about kindness, it's about community. So for me, the philosophy is always kindness first. And I insist all my leaders are kind. If they're not kind, it's a conversation. It's the one thing I say to my staff every year, if you if there's one thing you want to hold me to account on, and you want to question, if you don't think my leaders are kind, or I'm not kind, I want to hear about it. Um, and they will let me know if we've made a decision they don't think is kind. And and you have to open that door. And the next bit is really trust. For me, trust is important. I need to demonstrate trust, I need to give people the opportunity to make mistakes. They need to know that that that's there, but also that trust is twofold. I do believe that that the we it's two-way. You know, I talk about accountability with kindness, that's a phrase that I use a lot, and it's a it's a strange one to get your head around when you first hear it, I guess. But for me, you could be kind, but it's not unkind to be clear. So, like clear is kind, I've heard that phrase before. Um, because to build trust, you've got to be authentic and and and and this accountability is as a leader, I have to do things like I have to go into lessons and and look at look at the quality of learning. I'm sorry, I know that's annoying. Uh at times, I do need to look at books, I need to talk to students, I need to monitor grades, and it but that's part of my job and my role. Um, and I need you to respect that. You know, that that that that kindness comes two way, right? So you have to respect that just as I'm respecting you in terms of the support I'm giving you. When I'm giving you feedback, it's never personal, it's always professional. Um, and ultimately it's about kindness um when we're when we're doing accountability because we're here for the kids, right? And we've got to make sure we're getting everything we need. So I guess that's my philosophy in a in a nutshell. I hope that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 12:56

Yeah, no, that helps. That helps a lot. Actually, made me think of something because I wondered though, how do you balance accountability and kindness? Because you did mention that, but that balance is so tricky because if you come over as too kind, there are exploitative people who will try to use that against you. Um, and they will not want to have that level of accountability. And when you start to require that, they will say you're unkind. So, how do you balance that then?

SPEAKER_00 13:24

I think I think it's important, isn't it, to to have a balance. You we can't be um, you know, we we can't be naive in in what we're doing. That there's obviously a point where um where we have to draw the line a little bit. But what I'd say is I've I've never met a teacher in my career my entire life. Okay, I could be wrong about this. I've never met a teacher who doesn't care about the students, and so long as you can wrap that up in terms of what we're doing is is going to lead to the benefit for the kids in this. And look, I really need this from you because this will help our students progress more. Most teachers, okay, most teachers, 99% I would say, really, really care and they what they want things to go well. So I think it's about setting out your values and sometimes knowing that people will let you down. And it's really hard when that happens because especially when you put yourself out there and you are about trust and kindness, and you are um putting yourself in front of staff to say, look, I do believe that kindness is here, but what kindness is it's not a weakness. It's not me saying, I'm gonna let you take the mick. It's not me saying, you know, we're gonna have you know a week off left, right, and center, because we're here for the kids, right? So it's it's just having that balance. And that's why I say accountability with kindness, because we're trying to give that balance, trying to be clear that we're gonna be kind, but sometimes we have to have challenging conversations, and sometimes we've got to we expect from you. Um, but ultimately, if you're a human being about things and you understand that people have come in from different places and their truth is their truth, and you don't always have to have people agree with you, you don't have to have people nod and say, Yeah, I agree. Like it, you know, that's not what you're looking for as a leader. What you're looking for as a leader is we disagree in private, yeah. We we agree in public, and when we have that challenging conversation, we move forward with it. And ultimately, I don't get it right all the time. That's the truth. But and I have to be big enough to say, I got that role. And I've done that so many times as a leader, especially early on. Um did I know what I was doing? Sort of, yeah, but I'm learning as a go. And like, and and and and that's what you've got to remember. People will make mistakes, people will let you down, but it can't change who you are. And I think if you're authentic and you continue to sort of demonstrate those values, even when people take advantage, it's gonna strengthen that in you. So that's that's that's how I put it across.

Supporting Staff Through Fear And Fatigue

SPEAKER_02 15:58

I love that. You keep saying clear is kind, which is something Brene Brown, one of my favorite authors and speakers on leadership, says. And it's true, is when you muddy the waters by being very obscure in your messaging, that people tend to get confused. And that confusion then leads to them being annoyed, upset with you as a leader. Now, I did mention at the start of the podcast that we are recording this on April 2nd, um, which means we're in the midst of a conflict in this region. And so I want to, and I know that at Star, because I do know some of the team there, you do have a fairly young, young cohort of teachers at Star. Um, and so I'm really curious to know firsthand from you, Neil, how are they coping in this time?

SPEAKER_00 16:48

Yeah, it's a good question. I think, yeah, we talk about resilience a lot around students and and what we need to build in them. But actually, adults, um, grown-ups, as it were, we also have to sort of build a row resilience as well. I think every individual's different. So I'd say how are staff coping? Some are coping really, really well. Some aren't coping very, very well. And that's that's the truth of it. You know, some of our staff are struggling. I think the you know, the the the pressures of of being at home with with the kids whilst also providing distance learning, um, time zone differences because some of our staff are at different parts of the world. Some are worried because obviously, you know, when we hear these things that are happening above us, and not to go into it too much unless we want to explore that, there's there's a biological response to some of these things that you can't help. You know, no one can help feeling the way we do when we hear these things because we're not used to it. There's a biological response to it. It's it's it's ingrained in us. And it's, I think to say how they're coping is what I can see in the distance learning, as we're seeing across the whole of the UE. You know, teachers in this country are incredible. Um, as a profession, we saw it through COVID globally. We are some of the most kind, um, good-natured people that you could wish to come across. And it's even with the live lessons, they're dealing with all this thing that's happening, and their first priority is how can I support this child? I want to make sure that they're okay. Teachers as well, asking me how are you, Neil? Is everything okay with you? How's how's your girls? That's something that's really, really special, especially at Star Murder for me, is is the community around that, where the teachers who are going through XYZ still want to look out for the likes of me because they're nice people. We've got that sense of the community, that's that's a spirit. Um, so how are they doing is challenging. We all want it to end, but how proud are we of these incredible teachers for everything they're doing? So, yeah, they're doing well, we're gonna look after them. And look, we've had a lot of support, we're quite fortunate. Um, you know, ISP have been fantastic in the region. Um, offering, you know, sessions from like South Arabia. Uh, we've been getting specialists in to talk, talk to leaders about the kind of conversations that we're gonna have, preparing for that return to work and what that looks like. Because it's not just gonna be okay, we open the doors, everything's fine, even if it stops tomorrow. There's gonna be a knock-on effect for the kids and for the teachers. And teachers, we're not we're not qualified to have these conversations with children. Yeah. So we've got to try and prepare them for that. So work on that when they come back with with specialists coming in, talking to teachers, giving them advice. And it's been really nice, and you've probably seen this as well, companies like that. I even I don't I don't have a business arrangement with them, but they're offering you know free uh counseling sessions for teachers, you know, free sessions to sort of support us through it. And it's been really nice to see in the industry, yeah, um, people coming forward and supporting the the educators as well. So that deal well, but I'm very proud.

Building Cohesion Before Crisis Hits

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Yeah. So then I know that the situation in itself will build a level of resilience in teachers and in students. But as a leader, how are you building a resilient team? And this is not just for this conflict, this is for whatever comes. And we know whatever can come. We've discovered that it can happen now.

SPEAKER_00 20:24

I think look, like the first thing is you you can't, you can't, you can to an extent, but you can't do it now, in the sense that this is something that takes time to build. And when you're faced with great adversity, and this is quite an extreme example of that, all right. But when you're faced with adversity, what your team does in that moment is a reflection of the resilience of that team. And what I say is that the the cohesion between that team. It's funny, we started this year, one of our one of our things we were talking about was was clarity, consistency, cohesion. Okay, and and this sense that we need to have more, because we've grown rapidly, we've grown like like the clappers over the last sort of five, five, six years. And with that comes a sense of change all the time. And you kind of at this point, actually, this year, we were kind of like slow down, what's important, how do we create clarity, consistency, cohesion? And a lot of it goes back to that that culture that you need to build in your leadership team. Um, I'm a big fan of of Lencioni in terms of the you know, the pyramid of trust and how how how we build those things, trust, conflict, etc. And I think that's really important to take your leadership team through. I think one of the things we started the year, we've been doing this over a number of years with the people that I'm working with, is we have to build trust, we have to have conflict, we need to have a shared uh understanding, and we have to row in the same direction. And if your leadership team can get on board with that, get on the bus, um you can get through these things. And I saw that through COVID. I saw that at the COVID with Jill, Jill, this incredible principal at the time, who was who I was sat as number two to and saw her work through this global pandemic and all the challenges. So I was really fortunate to see that and learn from that without being at the pointy end of it. And it really set me up, I think, for this period of time that we're in. But I think it takes time. It's hard. It's so hard. It's the hardest thing you do as a leader is build other leads and build cohesion in your team. Because it's really easy to walk in and say we do it this way, we do it that way. But actually getting people on board, it is the most difficult thing, you know, because everyone's got opinions, you've got different personalities, you've got different ways of doing things. You've got people who are introverted, extroverted, you've got people who, you know, prefer to be told outright what's going on, people who you don't like that. So I think, you know, it's it's building that and sort of helping that within your team is is really about that. But it really all comes down to trust and kindness. The team needs to trust that I have their back. I need to trust that they have my back. And when you do that, like when you get that, it's really special. And I think I've got that special team in the moment. They're uh they're really they're a really great bunch.

After The Crisis What Changes

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Man, that's brilliant. And and you said something very, very key there. It's not it's not built during these times, it's after and before that, you know, you form the foundations and then afterwards you learn the lessons. And so that gives me that brings me to my final question, Neil. Is we wake up tomorrow morning and somehow, somehow, this is all over. What do we learn from this? Where to next for education? Where should we be steering the ship? What should we be focusing on?

SPEAKER_00 23:47

I think look always for the period after, the immediate period after, it's all about support, emotional regulation, making sure that we're taking care of well-being, building that sense of uh community within our schools. It's not saying the academics is taking put to one side, that's still important, of course. But actually, when we get out of this, we need to spend time to reflect on, you know, being with the kids and making sure they're feeling that sense of community. I think what we get from this, you know, my background's obviously technology in terms of leadership, but it's funny that the more that we experience these things like COVID and and what we're going through in the Middle East, um, the more you realize the face-to-face learning and the what you get from from that experience is you just can't replicate it. We're doing a great job with distance learning, don't get me wrong. And you know, kids are getting a really good deal out of that. And I think parents are responsive to that, but there's nothing like the magic of being in school. So I think what we get out of this in the future is to to continue to continue to sing the praises of education, to continue to sing the praises of teachers in the classroom, uh bringing that magic. You know, people I I read a lot about, you know, the fourth, fifth industrial revolution, um, and and how you know we're all going to be taught by AI chatbots in the future. I don't see it. And I actually think there needs to be a bit of a pushback from education in terms of some of the snake oil uh salespeople uh pushing these things because my view, and again, you know, maybe it's um I don't think it's too controversial, is the tech companies that are building these things, the their interests, do we trust their interests? You know, do we trust what they're saying in the back end as to why they want us all to use these tools? Where is this data going? Where's this information going? So actually, when we're thinking about what education is about, it's about human connection, it's about learning. Um, and I don't trust um corporate conglomerate to decide where we go as educational. I think we need to take control of that, and I think it should come from teachers, not from tech organizations. So I actually feel a pushback against that, is what I would say would be what comes next.

Taking Care Of The Leader

SPEAKER_02 26:10

Yeah, I'm actually in agreement with you. I think there is going to be a level of deeper desire for human connection and genuine human connection when we come out of this, the same way it was when we came out of COVID, is where we start to place the premium value on what really matters. And what really matters is human-to-human interaction. Those things cannot be replicated by um a tech. I was watching um some some new, I don't know if it was a news item, and the first lady of a certain huge country that's now involved in this, because gotta be very careful here, was walking out showing a robot. So she was walking, and the robot was walking alongside the first lady. Um, and then it was this big spiel about how this robot will offer personalized learning. The thing looked so freakish, and I was like, there is no way as a parent, and I'm a mom, would I just want my child left alone with this robot in any shape or form? I'm not saying robots can't be in the classroom or in the school, but not exclusively. And so I do agree with you when it comes to that side of things. I think after this, whenever this ends, it will be the human-to-human connection that will be of the biggest value. Okay, we won't end on that note because who wants that to be the final thing you say on this podcast? Not me. You, you and I, you and I know that at this time things are a little bit uncertain. But as a family man, um, as a leader, what are you doing to take care of Neil? How are you ensuring that Neil is okay?

SPEAKER_00 28:05

I think I think there's there's there's a few things there. Look, I've I've got a lovely family, three beautiful girls. I got a little one now, who's he's 18 months. Um, dog, so lots of dog walks, making sure you know we're getting out, going to the gym where we can. Um and I think it's it's that it's it's funny because obviously, again, during COVID, you had the same thing, right? You also get a bit more time in the home. And so actually, it's been quite nice spending a bit more time with the youngest, youngest one around. You might have heard her earlier, she was she was off to a nap time. Um, but I think it's it's leaning into those connections with family and just making sure that I'm I'm spending time with them and and that that fills me. That fills me up. Like I'm I'm of an age now, turning 40 this year, and goodness gracious, where the things that really I want to do on a weekend is I want to hang out with the girls um whilst they still want to hang out with me, right? So I think, I think, you know, classic girl dad, I guess. Um, I just love spending time with them, and that that's what's sort of looking after me. And I think it's also been in perspective and and making sure that you know, when things happen, you don't let any knock yet, you know, things are gonna go wrong, that there's gonna be things that are said, you might get an email at this time, which is really difficult because it's kind of like you know, there's a topic there that you just really right now you want to talk about that, but I think it's just keep your perspective, knowing that everyone's going through challenges and just sort of making sure that you're spending time with the people matter because that's what we really want around us at these sort of times, isn't it? So that's that's that's me.

SPEAKER_02 29:39

Yeah. Well, shout out to Rena and the girls. I'm glad they're taking care of you and you're taking care of them. And it's been my pleasure having you on the podcast, Neil. Thank you so much for being here.

SPEAKER_00 29:50

Thank you for inviting me. I really appreciated it. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Thank you for listening to the Teach Middle East podcast. Visit our website, teachmiddle east.com, and follow us on social media. The links are in the show notes.